Sunset on Sunbelt Series

[bull_dog_the_gate_keeper]

The Southern Slam race at South Georgia on Sunday had the same amount of cars (26) as NSS did, but look at the top 5 finishers:

12 Justin Drawdy - FL
112 Augie Grill - AL
10 Jack Landis - IN
51 Alex Haase - NC
14 Ben Rowe - ME

Notice that the top 5 were ALL from different states/regions? Why is it, that this group can all run the same rules and be competitive anywhere, while the Gov. Cup field was entirely Florida, with the exception of Dennis Schoenfeld ( who lives in NC now, but was originally from Jax.)

The upcoming Snowball Derby (CRA rules) will host close to 70 cars. The Rattler 250 (CRA rules) at South Alabama Speedway already has 53 entries for a race that won't even happen until next MARCH.

Just from my observations this weekend, I'd have to say that the CRA rules seem to be working just fine in comparison to FL rules.

I'd love to see all the current rule books thrown in the trash can, and give every current owner a choice of 2 books.... A CRA Super Late rulebook, or an ASA Crate Engine rulebook. Make our Florida cars get on the same page as the rest of the East coast.

jack landis ohio

[JackTripper]

With Mr. Pratt and Mr. Bresnahan's posts I would say this is the thread of the year right here.

[Winger]

With Mr. Pratt and Mr. Bresnahan's posts I would say this is the thread of the year right here.

Actually I heard that Jack Smith paid them show up money so there would be more interest in this board.

[pitcrew]

Todd may have been hinting at it, but the Fascar series' would have to go away for this mystery person to start up a new series, right.

Now that there is no more Sunbelt or Goodyear series, this opens the door for the rumored Combined Late Model class. Now instead of 20 or so cars in each of these series we'll have 40 competing in one!! Something tells me that won't work either.

CRA seems to be getting something right, but that'll be a cold day I'm sure when they come back to a Fascar track....Maybe we can just borrow their rules

[ancrdave]

I've been around this stuff longer than most anybody and have I seen the changes over the years...
We started going to races in FL in 1962... When Frank Dery decided to run a 200 lap FL State Championship for LM in 1963, everyone thought he was crazy until around 60 cars showed up and put on a whale of a show... Until 1967, what became the Governor's Cup was the ONLY big race for LM in Florida with the exception of the Snowball Derby which never attracted drivers from Central/North FL in it's early years... it was just too far away...
For Sprint Car fans, all you had were the IMCA Winternationals in Tampa in February...
1967 saw another 200 lap LM race... The South FL State Championship which would become a traditional event at Hialeah Speedway. Oddly enough, a Golden Gate Speedway regular, Billy Gill, came down and won that first race in a 1961 Chevy... NSS was also paved late in the year and the first race there was a 200 lapper won by Larry Flynn... The following year, either Doc Epps or Ed Otto promoted a big 200 lap LM race at New Smyrna... I was at this one and what a show it was... The thing attracted about 70 cars from literally everywhere and Bud Middaugh of PA in another 1961 Chevy won that one...
Over the years the Governor's Cup and South FL Championship continued with Hialeah now hosting the Marion Edwards, Jr. Memorial starting in 1969 after Marion's death at NSS...
Things really stayed pretty much the same with a few other extra distance races popping up here and there including the Gulf Coast 100 which was run at Sunshine Speedway the night before the Governor's Cup...
I can't really recall any "touring" LM Series before Don Nerone started the USA Series and Bert Ashelman started Florida Pro in the '80s... Both these groups were very successful for several years but three things killed them off... First it seemed every track wanted to run some kind of big LM race and teams now had a choice of whether to run a big show closer to home or travel and chase points... Secondly, the rules situation became chaotic at best... and third it simply began to cost so much to race that many teams either quit or severely cut back schedules...
In the early '90s there could be a big LM race somewhere of 100 laps or more every week... sometimes two or three of them... When Clyde Hart brought the Governors Cup to NSS, the first 2-3 years saw the race run on the traditional first Sunday in November and each race drew a really good field of cars, but that began to slip away...
I remember sitting in Pete Orr's office at the old RACECAR shop in Winter Park about 12 years ago talking about the state of LM racing just a few days before that years' Governors Cup and he confided to me that the Governors Cup had become "just another race" to him as part of the constant influx of big LM races which were going on every week...
And so it has continued with all types of touring groups, 6 pack series etc. diluting the fields etc. etc.
So what can be done... The track promoters/owners have to work together... Take a look at who has had the most success and put on the best show among traveling Series around the southeast... is it CRA, ASA, GAS... Mimic their rules and make things affordable for all race teams to make these shows... Eliminate "practice" days, run a standard tire rule etc.
Get all tracks to become part of the series... If you schedule two races each at Auburndale, Desoto, Charlotte County, Citrus, Columbia, OSW and NSS it would give you a 14 race "Series" and make the traditional events a part of it: the Governor's Cup, Clyde Hart Memorial, Marion Edwards, Jr. Memorial, Brian Davidson Memorial, the Icebreaker, and maybe bring the South FL Championship back and run it at Charlotte County... This would still leave some "room" for some other events like the Redeye 100 in Jan at NSS and the traditional Pete Orr Memorial at NSS during the World Series at NSS...
How about a bit of "innovation" from time to time... I'd love to see a race like the Cracker 200 brought back at either NSS or OSW but run it in four 50 lap segments with a format like the Sportsman used last week... Or how about the old Chicago-style "Monza" races of 300 laps divided into three separate 100 lap races...
With the economy in the tank and certainly not going to get better any time soon, tracks are going to have to get innovative particularly in billing their shows as "entertainment" rather than simply racing... I remember the ads in the Orlando Sentinel for the old Orlando Raceway were not in the sports section of the paper, but rather on the page that listed movies and other forms of entertainment.. The Sanford-Orlando Kennel Club and the Orland Jai-Alai Fronton did the same thing.... Put on a "show" and you can get the fans and, of course, keep them coming back - that's the real deal right now...

[flvideo]

Mike and Rich hit it on the head. We have seen them both race with us in the UDLMCS and both put on a show with their driving skills. Keeping the cost as low as possible is the answer. The UDLMCS has had an average of 44 or 45 cars all year and I think the reason #1 is Ken Kinney, #2 is a rules package allowing 3 different motors to run, #3 is consistance. We had a crate motor win at East Bay, but at some of the tracks we ran at the big motors dominated. I don't think we have anyone in the series just throwing money at it like I've seen for years in asphalt racing. One of our lowest budget racers that has had hard luck all year, told me at our last race that he'd be back with us next year because he had fun and it didn't cost him an arm and leg. Now thats what its all about. Bob.....

[georgep]

great thread!

NOW what can be done? To change something an action must be taken, When no action is taken there is no change.
Is there a person, car owner, driver or ? that a majority of the people think has a head on their shoulders and is not just talking to be heard? If this person exixts then they need to start action that will result in change by WRITING a proposal and then presenting it to the money person so action can be taken.
No Busines plan No action, SIMPLE!

[fred23]

I think Robert Hart is doing pretty much what Dave said....He is going back to the grassroots and running "local" races again to bring back the weekend hobby guys that have fallen by the wayside because they can't or won't afford to spend $1500-$2000 to go run a 100 lap event and get paid $300 for a 10th place finish. . I am sure there will still be the Clyde Hart race and obviously the governors cup. But hopefuly like Pete Orr stated they will become special again because there won't be a 100 or 200 lap race every week. The weekend racer has a "chance" to break even when he doesn't have to buy tires every race. Running 30 lap features every week or so is so much more cost friendly than running a series, and you race the same or more can make the same amount or more money and the "series field filler" has a chance to get better finishes.

Hopefully Robert will be able to create good points funds for ALL of the classes and recreate the "points racer" and a reason to show up every week.

[joefever33]

spec motors and prcatice

just my thoughts: spec motors are here to stay, people cant afford to run supers with $40,000 engines. 17,500 you get a complete engine ready to race. if any body thinks people are getting better engines, you can buy that engine at the track on any given night. most people who think they are down on power either cant drive or set up a race car. steve from progressive is not going to destroy his reputation to build one person a special engine, who ever said that in the above post is an idiot, period. also the spec engine is just about bullet proof for up to 2500 laps. it is the best thing since sliced bread. if you sent all of you old steel head motors to the scrap yard you would be ahead of the game with a spec.

i do agree that races should be 1 day with limited practice. if you can afford to show up on wed, to practice for a sat night show that pays 3 grand that is a huge advantage over the rest of the compitition. 2-3 hours of practice before the race should be all you get. tracks would get more cars, to make up for the lost income of renting the track out to all the rich people.

last but not least all of the tracks in florida, and i mean all of the asphalt tracks should get on the same engine rules and tires for 2009, even if there is not a sunbelt series at least you could travel to other tracks to race.

good day, joe fever #33

[ronabneysr]

sure back in day they had lot late models

tell you what if some one can figure out how to get all tracks to agree on a set of rules . and no rich daddys going out and renting the track for week for there drivers -sons or who ever . and just have pratice day of race .

then advertise far enough ahead of time were there are enough people there that track and car owner can make enough money to afford to race

and then have some body with enough brains thta they know how to check car tear down first five i mean tear them down and if you are illeagle you are done and not just for that night for that series ,,, and then have a random car no matter were it finished tearit down also what's the old saying how fast do you want to go .. how much money you got ......................

[HaudFan]

Remember when the "special" races meant the hot shoe from another track came in to beat the local hot shoe? Somewhere along the way too many people started touring series. It was a good idea at the time but then somebody got mad and took they're ball and started another series...I guess what I'm trying to say is simplify things again. Why would I go to NSS for a weekly show when I know there are not going to be many late models because they are off chasing every semi high dollar touring series race...Racing has become like boxing. An alphabet soup of touring series with minimal competition.

[AJ14]

If you do the math you realize that a points fund is the very last thing you want at any race track . The drivers who don't have much money and who race each week but seldom finish in the top 5 or even top ten aren't going to get much if any of the points fund money . They aren't going to be able to afford to keep racing long enough to collect any of it . And the top teams that do get the points money already have plenty of money for the most part .
And of course points funds always seem to be much , much lower than simple arithmetic tells you they should be .
Drop all points funds and increase the weekly purse . The weekly purse should also include all money from sponsors . That way the average racer has a little better chance to aford to keep racing .

[Mike Bresnahan]

A shedule for a series race should look like this:

10am pit gates open

1 -3pm open practice

3-5 break (divisional practice)

5-6 tech

6pm qualifiying (impound cars)

Tire Rule: Can only purchase 4 per car. Must enter car to recieve tires. Tires can only be purchased at the track, the day of the race. Period. This solves a bunch of problems!

Take away the advantage of the big budget teams, and make it enjoyable for a family to go to the track. Treat it as a hobby, not a business. Nobody goes to work to have fun.

[flvideo]

I beg to differ with you Mike.

I go to work to have fun. Without a doubt. I am lucky to enjoy my work.. Bob...

[fred23]

I like Mike's schedule....but I would go a couple of steps further....Make the races 50 laps and have a 2 tire rule per race. All of the tires have barcodes on them now. THey could easily be recorded and checked during tech. And since the track or series isn't selling as many tires, I would not mind a mandatory 5 gallon gas purchase. A dollar a lap entry fee is fair also. I would like to see a big "start money" pay and only start 20-24 cars each race and have a consi or last chance race for the other cars.(I know, we barely get 20 cars now...but I think if it is affordable and fair the car count would climb again.)
It would make for good strategies on how your car works....do you buy rears and fronts or rights and lefts?