FASCAR mini stock meeting

[Boneman]

Overall, I was pretty un-impressed. I have no criticism at all for Butch and Joe who ran the meeting. They were professional, impartial and sincere. It was the other guys in my class who surprised me.

I had hoped for some substantive discussion about rules, but there was very little. Only Ted Vulpius showed any willingness to discuss detailed points of the rule book. I threw out a few ideas for a fundamental re-write, (modern engines, EFI and even 6 cylinders), but no one seemed interested. Instead, there was much discussion of race procedures, etc.

A recurring theme was how many racers want to insure they start up front, run only features and don't have to re-start double file. In other words, so they have to "race" as little as possible, and offer little entertainment to the fans. My impression is that most of the racers want to maintain the status quo. I even heard "there is nothing wrong with the class".

It is the responsibility of all who were at the meeting to write down their views and suggestions, then mail them to FASCAR management. I'll do that this weekend.

Unless there is a surprise coming, it looks like we'll be staying with expensive, 30 year old engines, and a sick class with less than 10 cars.

[Frasson118]

Not only does it sound un-impressive, it sounds downright counter-productive. No wonder there are very few people in the stands... the cars they are watching are merely going around in circles, instead of actually RACING. The really sad part, is that is the way the competitors WANT it. And they also want to paid more for it?

For all the racers in this class (and all the others too for that matter), you need to ask yourselves a question:

Am I in this sport to RACE, or am I out here to drive fast in circles?

Shame the hell out of you guys that feel a need to start up front, and the lack of balls it takes to actually PASS someone. Grow a set, you nutless wonders!

"Nothing wrong with this class", my ass! Sounds to me like EVERYTHING is wrong with this class

[JackTripper]

That's just plain sad.

I saw a whopping four cars in this class at NSS when I was there for the Brighthouse race and generally not much more at OSW this year. If this class wants to keep the fans bored, keep doing single file restarts and have the four cylinder late models start up front. Maybe then we can just show up and watch one four cylinder late model out there racing against itself.

God forbid anyone would want to discuss changing the rules to get more participation and fan interest...

[Boneman]

For reference, I like the mini stock class and intend to stay in it. I also like having a 4 Cyl. LM. They are easier to work on and repair, BUT I would hope for a rules structure that would allow the vintage, uni-body based cars to be competitive. They absolutely can be. DOT tires and weight penalties appear to be the best equalizers in my view.

When I ran dirt, we raced two heats and a feature. I liked it! Why? Because I waited all week to race. I don't care that "heats don't mean anything or pay much", I went there to race. If I got to line up and go at it three times a night, then I was having a good time.

Clearly, two heats are not an option anymore, and some nights have to be features only. I just don't understand all the resistance to running heats. For a guy like me who has to leave work early to practice (I usually don't), the heat race becomes my practice, and some fun too.

[AJ14]

The idea of eliminating heat races isn't being brought up only at NSS . Its nation wide and the reason is for the fans , not the competitors . I've sat in the stands and watched many races at many tracks . Heat races are not used for feature placement , so why use up and tear up race cars for no purpose . Heats are often used as test sessions , but the fans aren't interested in watching test sessions .And the main thing on my mind , as well as the minds of the others in the stands was why is this show dragging ? Why are we watching seemingly endless four and six car heat races ? The majority of fans don't care about heats . And of course there are the non stop yellow flags during heats , making the show last far longer than it needs to . As a fan , i want pay a reasonable ticket price , eat quality food , be entertained , and get home by 10:00 or 10:30 . A movie allows me to do that . Mostly , stock car races do not . The races have to be sped up . No more cautions that last 10 laps under yellow or twenty minutes under a red flag . More tow trucks , more track workers , whatever is needed . And feature races only would sutre move the show along .
As i've stated before , i can't come up with one single good reason for newer bodied cars not to be included in stock car classes as well as mini stocks .
And if someone can come up with a viable reason , please share it with us . Maybe i've overlooked something in this idea .

[Frasson118]

If a track eliminates heat races, I feel they should be reducing my cost of admission as well. They are a part of the entertainment I spent my money on in the first place.

On a dirt track, this wouldn't work, and would not be tolerated either. The heat races are often among the best races of any night at a dirt track.

If I go to a concert that has an opening band, should I put up with not getting one? Should I just figure that they "don't mean anything anyhow?" No, it's still a part of the show I was supposed to see for my money. A single band SHOULD cost less than a twin bill. Same principal here.

True, 4-6 car heat races suck... but is it a better show if those same 4-6 cars go 20 laps, rather than 8? It usually sucks just as bad, but for twice as long. You wanna move the show along? Skip the interviews with the top 3 drivers in every class (out of the 4 drivers IN that class), while at the same time, holding up the next race.

If all these "racers" want features-only, and the tracks are willing to accomodate them, then cut my cost of admission. I'm not getting all that I paid for.

[AJ14]

The ticket prices and back gate fees are just fine as they are at NSS if they have lowered everything . Whether realistic or not , stock car racing has to begin to compete with movie theaters and ball games . Ticket prices , food quality and price , entertainment value , lenght of show , sponsor involvement , and excitement . If a race track doesn't offer all of those things to the fans every race night , they won't come . They have other options . The tracks have to give the fans something that they are willing to pay to see .
Totally inverted starts and double file re-starts are part of that idea . Some drivers may be unwilling to start from the back . Again , putting on a good show is the most important thing . Many , many race tracks have , and do use totally inverted starts for one reason . THE SHOW ! Fans love watching the fast cars work their way to the front . Nobody wants to watch the fastest cars start from the front and drive off . Same with double file re-starts . ITS ABOUT PUTTING ON A SHOW . And if those two things had never been used before , then they sure should be used now .
Every tiny detail about short track stock car racing has to be put under the microscope and one question asked , does this help to put on a good show for the fans , and can it be changed to put on an even better show for the fans .

[Benny The Mule]

On a dirt track, this wouldn't work, and would not be tolerated either. The heat races are often among the best races of any night at a dirt track.

Absolutely Mr Binner..in NC all the dirt track run a 6 lap heat to SET the field for the main.

By luck of the draw i've seen many of the big players each week not be able to go to the front in that short heat so you get a main with FAST cars spread all through the starting grid which = RACING TO THE FRONT!

Asphalt/ Hickory does qualifying before the grandstands even open and you get 35-50 features every week, which shows fast guys on longer runs.

Down side....they start straight up fast cars in front

[Benny The Mule]

I don't care that "heats don't mean anything or pay much", I went there to race. If I got to line up and go at it three times a night, then I was having a good time.

That's exactly how i used to think too.as much time on the track as i could get.

financially i cannot race now because i changed priorities, but one reason for that is the expence vs the enjoyment. It went away when i couldn't maintain my $8000 car to race against $20,000++ cars....it wasn't fun anymore.

[andre]

Heres, an idea that might work for you guys. We did it here for long time and worked pretty good.

It's call the Monza system.

Instead of heats and feature, you run 3 or 4 segment races and the best average wins the night, like 3 X 10 laps, 4 X 20, or which ever number you want to have. First segment position can be decided with a pill draw or point system, your choice. The second segment starts with position inverted of position finish in first segment and third segment starts with position inverted of position finish in second segment. Your finish position is your score, like 1st is 1 point, second is 2 points, etc,. The lowest total points win the night. If you have an even score with two guys, most laps led or best finish in last race could be use as a deciding option.

Is it ice cream and apple pie? Nope, but it make racers go on track 3 or 4 times per event, fans watch fast cars come from the back, that make different winners, and lotsa strategy comes into play. And pleeeease, for fans sake, start them double file, all the time.

André

[AB195]

Again guy's, great ideas.
Keep seeing Austrailian Pursuit Races up north for a class or two on a given night.
I don't know if anyone has ever heard of this type of PRELIMINARY event, but it works (it's simple) like this:
A couple of 10 or so laps of races, singlefile, any and all cars passed are out. Lone car running wins--it goes quickly. 10 laps or one car left, whichever comes first.

[Todd McCreary]

I saw a whopping four cars in this class at NSS ... If this class wants to keep the fans bored, keep doing single file restarts and have the four cylinder late models start up front.

FASCAR might want to look into reducing the number of feature laps for small fields. there is NO POINT in running 20 laps with 4 or 5 cars.

and they might not want to institute double file restarts on a general basis but for a field with <7 cars it could add some much needed spice to the show.




I also like having a 4 Cyl. LM

the statement was made that "The class has gotten out of hand but now that it's out of hand there's no going back".

that's a very disappointing attitude to me. if we're just going to up and say that "We aren't capable of effective handicapping" then i'm not even sure what we're discussing in the rules meeting.

applied, it also means that FASCAR has no interest in any of those 5-15 year old mini-stocks ( you know, from back when Mini-Stocks were an entry level class like they're supposed to be ) that might be sitting in somebodies yard or in a garage. which, i thought, was the whole point of these meetings? to get people who just have cars sitting around to bring them out to the track? sorry, i must have gotten confused........

Boneman's point about DOT tires is one effective rule change.

adding weight to the right side would be another.

i also heard a suggestion for a weight penalty for repeat winners. i'm not so much in favor of that as there will be those who use it as an excuse not to work on their car but it's something.




Heat races are not used for feature placement ,

ummm, yes they are? it's certainly in the 2008 FASCAR rule book that way. most other tracks that i've attended use the heats + pill draw inversion ( or something ) to set feature lineups.



so why use up and tear up race cars for no purpose

we could ask why the drivers are tearing up race cars for no purpose .... but everybody tells me i have a negative attitude.





i can't come up with one single good reason for newer bodied cars not to be included in stock car classes as well as mini stocks .

they're afraid of EFI and ECU's.

keep in mind, i'm not saying it's a good reason and they might not even admit to it. but that's what it comes down to in most cases.




As a fan , i want pay a reasonable ticket price , eat quality food , be entertained , and get home by 10:00 or 10:30 . A movie allows me to do that . Mostly , stock car races do not .

well said.




but is it a better show if those same 4-6 cars go 20 laps, rather than 8? It usually sucks just as bad, but for twice as long.

also well said.




You wanna move the show along? Skip the interviews with the top 3 drivers in every class (out of the 4 drivers IN that class),

damn straight. the next time i see an entire class pull up at the start/finish line for pictures i swear i'm going to get a gun.

"Ooooh, I finished dead last in a field of four cars. I gots to gets me a picture". <<<< these people have no shame. great "self-esteem" but no shame. makes you wonder which is more useful.

speaking of which, the 1.3 is a top 5 Sportsman at OSW. we should have our picture taken.




Some drivers may be unwilling to start from the back .

i get the strangest feeling that many of the drivers who don't want to start from the back are also the ones in favor of soft slicks, racing springs, 4 corner jacking bolts and big motors.

anybody want to take bets?




Every tiny detail about short track stock car racing has to be put under the microscope and one question asked , does this help to put on a good show for the fans , and can it be changed to put on an even better show for the fans .

AJ, i'm going to have to adopt you or something.





Austrailian Pursuit Races

this is a qualifying race or it functions as a 10 lap feature? not enough laps if you're going to let all the other fast cars start up front on me. they'd get too much space in the first five laps to close back up. and i'm betting that with cars dropping out of the field constantly yellows are far and few between.




It's call the Monza system.

it's an idea. and it might work at a track that only runs 4 classes, maximum.

FASCAR has:
Strictly Stock
Mini Stock
Super Stock
Sportsman
Modified
Limited Late Model
Super Late Model

plus whatever touring series or Legends cars or Bandelero's or whatever else they're throwing on top of us.

it's not viable here unless you were to run only two races for each class. in which case, the 'heat' race would be your first feature.

the downside is that it confuses the issue for the fans. you could easily have a guy "win" the night who doesn't finish first in a single race. i think it sounds great for club racing, not so good for spectating.

[andre]

the downside is that it confuses the issue for the fans. you could easily have a guy "win" the night who doesn't finish first in a single race. i think it sounds great for club racing, not so good for spectating.

That's probaly why there is only 5,000 fans at each and every year's Milk Bowl for the last 30 years, in Thunder Road, Barre, Vermont.

And also another 3000+ at the Special Vacation, hold on a Monday for the last 20+ years at St Croix, Québec.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a cure at everything, but when well done, it might turn out to be a very good event. Take 25 Late or Super Late and make a 4 X 25 laps at any race track in Fla and watch. Then let me know what you think. Hard to tell before it has been done at least one, but at these two events, it has been a major success over the years.

Thanks for reading,


André

[AB195]

Sorry about that, Todd-I should have clarified that somewhat.
AP races are minor gigs, mostly in place if heat races, in addition to a 30 lap feature. They're alot of fun for the fans, AP races are merely another race for fans to watch.

[Darren]

Austrailian Pursuit

Great race to watch. Each night's top 10 cars from qualifying invert run 10 laps, starting single file. Great on dirt tracks. If a track doesn't have nightly qualifying they could run the top 10 finishers from the last week's feature. A lot of differ ways to do a line up. It could be a non points race or you could pick up a few points. If you qualify and don't want to do it the racer next in line fills your spot. Once again, fun race to watch, might be the best race of the night.