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[AJ14]

I understand that everyone isn't going to be able to work on their own cars . But then many racers don't do all of the work on their own cars now . Thats where race engine builders and chassis builders come in . Same could be done for the new generation cars . Find the shop in town that knows how to work on the engine electronics . I don't know how much work an electronic injected race car would require . Maybe a lot , though most of the newer small cars seem pretty bullet proof . I think it is very much worth while to find out . Its all in the hands of the tracks and their rules makers . We've got to get the younger people involved .
And late model bodies for stock type classes is the answer for crowd appeal . It will take other measures to save stock car racing , but these ideas would sure be a good start .

[flraceguy]

bullet proof

Let's see bullet proof... my better half, has had problems with her newer car in the last six months. let's see main computer went out. will turn over but no fire.. puter had too tell me that $900.00 plus dollars to repair. two months later, same problem, nope puter diagnosed a sensor in the door was not letting the main car puter to work. $700.00 move ahead one week, brand new main car puter went out again... will turn over but not fire. $800.00 this time...

thank God for warranty and $65000 diagnostic computer.

still think average racer can afford those electronic repairs for a strictly stock.

by the way how old are you anyway...

have a great day all

[Frasson118]

We talked a little bit about this the other night. The most popular cars for production-based classes, are becoming more and more extinct. It's hard to find a Monte Carlo or Camaro to turn into a Street Stock, and the same for Pinto's and Mustangs for Mini-Stocks. The IMCA, which is the most successful sanction in the country with thousands of Modifieds (all with common rules), have recognized the problem finding acceptable front-clips to be used on these cars. There just aren't enough of them left. They are looking into the feasability of using tube-framed cars, strictly because the supply is almost gone. Same principal here.

In NY, the feeder classes are usually tube-framed, store bought chassis. The difference is, that there are a LOT of used chassis and parts available. You can get them anywhere, unlike trying to find some production car parts. A 10 year old Troyer dirt chassis can still be used competitively in the "Sportsman"-type classes... and they have full 24 car fields most of the time. Plus, if you'd like to move up in class, you don't have to haul everything to the curb and start over. Many of the same parts can be used in the upper classes also.

On the other hand, these cars don't have anything in common with a street car that you could identify. New fans need something they can identify with... Modifieds and Sprints generally aren't appealing to the first-time visitor. Super Late Models look something like what you may see on the street... but then WAIT.... every car looks exactly the same as each other. Now the Limited Lates come out... and THEY look identical to the SLM's. Nobody cares if it has a Blue Oval decal, or a Red Bowtie sticker.

I think the trick is to create a tube-chassied car, with a Production car body that fans can identify with. Use rock-hard tires, lots of nerf bars, and make sure that aerodynamics play as little role as possible. You can get the chassis cheap, the replacement parts are plentiful, and the bodies can come from any junkyard in America. I think you'd have a class that handles well, looks (sorta) like a street car, discourages big-dollar motors, and would be affordable to keep on track.

I know, I know... the LAST thing we need are more divisions. But, in this case, it would be radically different rather than just another class of Monte Carlos. Relying on chassis that came from Detroit is just not "big picture" thinking. We need more vision to find ways to use what is readily available, rather than scavenger hunting looking for cars to fill out the fields.

[andre]

Chassis like this could do the job:
http://www.johnsonchassis.com/Home_Page.php

All GM metric chassis parts fits it.

No expensive tricky trick stuff here. Just plain basic.

Finish it up with a non aero style body work, Good Year 2463 A 400(a rock is softer), OEM rear & front suspension, 75$ claim shocks.

Spread this ruling on ALL Fla tracks, SAME EVERYWHERE, Asphalt and Dirt, within a year or 2, you'll see.

[AJ14]

There have been some great ideas posted here . Now the question is , who do we see about getting it done . I hope there are some track owners and promoters paying attention .

[flraceguy]

AJ.. There are alot of track owners paying attention as well as some that are not... But.. You have to understand that with the economic situation the way it is, making and breaking in new classes is a tough call... Considering that the tracks are having problems with Car Count as it is...

patience patience... With well thought ideas and managers willing to listen and think about, racing will survive and all will be great once again...

Have a great day all....

[Osmosis Jones]

Well done AJ14.....

Very good ideas and posts with a different point of view about the direction racing should be heading. I was also impressed with your ability to let the questions about your age slide by without feeling the need to answer them. In my opinion, age has nothing to do with a posters ability to formulate an opinion and contribute to a thread. As long as he/she doesn't curse or make demeaning statements about another member I think everyone has the right to be heard...or read in this case.

Like most, I don't agree with fuel injected, computer controlled race cars but on the other hand, I can sure see where AJ is coming from. Whether or not this is something viable for race tracks to look at or that these types of cars are something that fans really want to see can be debated back and forth forever. I guess until someone tries it and finds success or failure, anyways. But facts are facts and the sad truth is Detroit ain't turning out weekend-racer friendly products anymore. And haven't been for some time now, actually. And even the metric cars of the 80's are getting close to antique status these days. So what to do about keeping the good ole boy, full size, fire-breathin', car-burp-erated V8 classes as a economical and fun division for the average Joe who wants to start his budding racing career?

Andre beat me to the punch with his link to Johnson race cars. I have thought about this type of thing for quite some time. It's actually not that new of an idea as chassis builders like Ed Howe have sold tubular clips that have the stock geometry built into them for quite some time now. I'm sure the builders all realized a long time ago that clips were getting fewer and farther between in the junkyards. I have some other ideas about this type of thing but you know me, once I start typing it's epic story time. I want to keep reading some good posts with good ideas.

So keep up this great thread and ya'll don't worry if someone isn't 180 years old and been around racing since wooden tracks. Ideas are ideas as opinions are opinions. Everybody has em' and is entitled to share em'.
My 13 year old can play Van Halen licks on his Strat after three months of teaching himself. I couldn't pluck Smoke on the Water without screwing it up. Maybe a younger approach to an old as dirt problem is what's needed. Who know's, maybe AJ is on to something.


OJ

[flvideo]

Hey Matt, Hows ya'll doin? Wish you guys would come down to CCMP some time. I'd like to see youse guys..... Do you remember the guy that brought his car to the track at Saramana in a dump truck? Was it Huffstetler? I've been racking my feeble brain for 2 days trying to remember. Bob...

[AJ14]

You know , i didn't mention my age did i . I'm 48 . My suggestions for new types of cars probably made me sound like a High School boy . Nope , that was long ago .
Please DO keep the new and innovative ideas coming .

[AJ14]

Since the subject of drag racing and its popularity was raised , the reason drag racing draws so many cars each night is that each driver has a chance to win every race . A good chance . Bracket racing allows one car to compete with a much faster car on an equal basis . If your car can run a 10 second pass , and your opponent can run an 8 second pass , then you get a three second head start . The race then comes down to who does the better job of driving ( best reaction time off the line , hitting shift points exactly , avoiding wheel spin , etc, ) and tuning their car for the changing weather as the night goes on . Money enters into it of course , a good chassis design , new tires vs. old tires , better electronics for launching the car , they all play a part . But every driver , no matter how fast or slow , no matter how much or how little he has invested has a very real chance to win every race hes in .
This brings me to a recurring theme in stock car racing . " i can't win , i don't have the big dollars that some of the others in my class have , so i've just decided to park my race car . I don't have any chance to make any money with it .
Well there may be an answer for that too . In other parts of the country there is an entirely different way to run stock car races , one where every driver competes against cars his own speed , and doesn't have to break the bank to go fast .
Heres a quick rundown . There is only one class of stock cars . There are mini stocks , modifieds , trucks , but only one class of stock cars . Only one set of rules . All cars must be of a certain year range , good safety regulations , 9 pounds per cubic inch , 366 cubic inch limit , 4 barrel , manual trans , 10 inch wide tires . If you happen to have a cast iron block , steel crank , and good set of aluminum heads on your work bench , you can race . If you've got a brand new $45000 Progressive engine , put it in a go racing . Basic chassis or new Port City car . Doesn't matter . they both race
To make the math simple , lets say 80 stock cars show up to race . All qualify . Fastest 40 are the Class A , slowest 40 are CLass B . Then A and B are split in half . Fast A , Slow A Fast B , Slow B . Has nothing whatsoever to do with the cars , only their times each night . One weekend you might be slow A , next week you come up with the money for new headers , now your faster and running Fast A . The beauty is , you're always in a race with cars of similar speed to your own . Cars are timed at random during all races so nobody gets away with sandbagging . Now heres the kicker . All races , even trophy dashes are started totally inverted . Now that means that the slowest car in the race starts on the inside front row and might be able to hang on for a win , certainly a top 5 . Blocking is never tolerated and will bring on an instant DQ . Decisions about blocking and sandbagging are made by a group of five observers .
I've actually seen this system work , and work very well .

[AJ14]

I should pay more attention to my math . I meant to say that a 10 second car would get a TWO second head start .