Crate Late Models

[Phil Jacques]

I believe you have the right idea, Phil. Costs to run late models are insane. Quick funny story. I was talking to a competitor in the SCCA Trans Am pro series. I asked if they allowed bump stops. He said they used to, but Ricky Brooks, the Tech man for the series, took them away. He said he asked Ricky why, and he said they escalate the costs too much. He said he is against them in late models as well for the same reason, but has too much opposition.

NAILED IT!!! Bump stop and coil bind setups need to be outlawed. On top of escalating costs they don't make the racing any better cause cars are so on edge with those setups guys are not willing to race side by side. Do that and implement a spec sealed shock and that's a huge cost savings. But then you got everyone bitching about spending the money to go back and to that I say this... you have no problem spending the money to chase the bumps, in the long run eliminating them will save money and same with the shocks. Another thing would be a tire rule. Operating on a 3 week pattern. 4 tires this week, 2 the week after and 2 more after that and then you can buy 4 again but you're only allowed to hold 8 tires in your weekly inventory. But that would require the tracks to put forth effort to maintain and police the system. Works well at Stafford here.

[OldSchool+]

I haven't found anything Phil has said that I can disagree with.

But, y'know, the night is young...

[Circledude]

yeah I would agree the Sportsman are good where they are, it would be nice if we could reduce the the costs some how on the SLMs, the shocks and bumps would be a good start, maybe another idea for the 602 crate late models is include them with the SLMs by lowering minimum weight to be competitive, back when Bobby Diehl ran our Punta Gorda track we ran crate late models, limited late models and supers together with weight difference and we were averaging over 20 cars for each race and the racing was very competitive, adding or reducing weight may be the least inexpensive way to get bigger car counts with what we have now

[Phil Jacques]

yeah I would agree the Sportsman are good where they are, it would be nice if we could reduce the the costs some how on the SLMs, the shocks and bumps would be a good start, maybe another idea for the 602 crate late models is include them with the SLMs by lowering minimum weight to be competitive, back when Bobby Diehl ran our Punta Gorda track we ran crate late models, limited late models and supers together with weight difference and we were averaging over 20 cars for each race and the racing was very competitive, adding or reducing weight may be the least inexpensive way to get bigger car counts with what we have now

You're only going to get those cars so light and I really don't think it's going to make a difference.

If you can't afford to run an SLM, sell it and cut your losses. It's that simple. There is a "ladder system" that nobody seems to use anymore. Everyone wants to run a SLM but nobody want's to spend the money so they want it to be cheaper and cheaper. Got news for you, it's the top tier of fendered short track car in the nation. No matter what you do with spec shocks, bump stops etc it's still going to be expensive. If you want to run a 602 crate car, sell your SLM and put together a sportsman.

Half the problem with people having cars on stands at home and not going to the track is people get in over their head financially and when they realize they can't afford it they blame everyone and everything else. Look in the mirror and realize ya dun messed up lol

If you want bigger car counts, combine the PLM and SLM at every track. Some people will bitch that there will be a difference in straightaway speed etc but remember, the sportsman also have built motors and crate motors and there isn't a huge issue there with incidents caused by closing rates.

Start at ground zero. Combine the SLM and PLM straight up as their current rules packages stand and then from there, an intelligent tech man such as Ricky Brooks can find ways to keep the competition close.

I have seen 600hp SLM's run with 450-500hp PLM's... They do it up here a lot with PASS cars integrating into local Pro Stock divisions and series. On the smaller tracks, the difference is minimal with the correct tire. You can only use what you can put to the ground. Tire is the great equalizer

[OldSchool+]

My crystal ball say:

>Sportsman will be the top weekly class. Probably will be re-named "Late Model Sportsman".

>SLM will be touring only (due to the expense) and will not be the top rung, but the bottom rung for folks-with-plenty-of-backing that have Cup aspirations.

>Eventually, modified car count will drop due to expense, the class will go away, and then re-emerge as a crate or claimer class.

>Similarly, there will be one class of V8 bombers (let's call 'em "Bone-y Bombers"), and one class of import bombers.

You heard it here on KARNAC first.

[Phil Jacques]

>Sportsman will be the top weekly class. Probably will be re-named "Late Model Sportsman".

No need to re name and make it a moutfull, Sportsman works fine

>SLM will be touring only (due to the expense) and will not be the top rung, but the bottom rung for folks-with-plenty-of-backing that have Cup aspirations.

This division should really be a touring division and let the Sportsman and Modifieds be the staple weekly divisions, even up here except for 1 track the Pro Stocks and SLMs are strictly touring series.

>Eventually, modified car count will drop due to expense, the class will go away, and then re-emerge as a crate or claimer class.

This is a division that needs an overhaul. It won't be cheap, but if "modifieds" are to survive for the long term, they need to look at another direction. Troyer, Spafco, LFR, Chassis Dynamics, Raceworks... These are chassis builders on the Whelen Modified Tour and SK Modifieds from NH to NC... There are TONS of these chassis available for short money in good used condition. Put a 604 with a Jericho or Richmond in the car with 4bbl and spec shocks and send it. These cars are exciting to watch, and with the 604 it would be a super competitive class

>Similarly, there will be one class of V8 bombers (let's call 'em "Bone-y Bombers"), and one class of import bombers.

I have said this too people on here for years but it falls on deaf ears. There are too many similar divisions of that type of car and really, the same can go for mini stock type cars. Sprints, Trucks, Supers/PLM, Sportsman, Street Stocks, Mini Stocks and Modifieds really are the only divisions that need to exist. If they could clean a lot of this stuff up, these tracks would have so much stronger car counts. Maybe this winter I will sit down and print out ALL of the rule books and see where the differences are and do a big writeup and how to make them closer with minimal changes... MAYBE lol

[jacko241]

My crystal ball say:

>Sportsman will be the top weekly class. Probably will be re-named "Late Model Sportsman".

>SLM will be touring only (due to the expense) and will not be the top rung, but the bottom rung for folks-with-plenty-of-backing that have Cup aspirations.

>Eventually, modified car count will drop due to expense, the class will go away, and then re-emerge as a crate or claimer class.

>Similarly, there will be one class of V8 bombers (let's call 'em "Bone-y Bombers"), and one class of import bombers.

You heard it here on KARNAC first.

Ba-Ba-Bingo! Back when I ran on dirt, the cars were called late model sportsman. Then they started allowing all kinds of upgrades, and then they were called limited late models. Then, after more "development", they became just straight up late models.