Desoto coming back to life ???

[Phil Jacques]

I'm just going to add a little note regarding Joe's comment above...

Short Track Racing is not "dying"

We aren't doing enough to appeal to the younger generations who may have never been exposed to our sport.

These tracks, and that includes the tracks here that I tout so heavily, are stuck in this rut of advertising to the same people.

When I was a kid, I use to see full page ads in the paper, hear it on the radio going to school or riding in the car, and even see ads on TV.

Today, there is almost none of that. There are no real attempts being made (in my eyes) to broaden our own reach. If that continues, THAT will be the cause of the death of this sport.

I post regularly on a multi-town local FB group for various reasons here that surround one of our local tracks, Thompson Speedway Motorsports Park... Last year I made a post inviting people out to the extra distance street stock event which was only $12 for grandstands. The post got over 200 comments on it, and I would honestly say 180 of them had NO CLUE that the track still operated.

A business can only reach new customers if the marketing department does it's job... A racetrack is a business. FACEBOOK IS NOT ADEQUATE ADVERTISING!

I'll leave it at that. Lord knows I have plenty of opinions on why our sport is struggling right now.

[OldSchool+]

"We aren't doing enough to appeal to the younger generations who may have never been exposed to our sport."--PJ

Dude, the horse has done left the barn.

Raised my son on slot cars, go carts, stock car races, and put a wrench in his hand at about 11. The guy can think for himself, fix things, and is a decent help in the pits.

BUT--that was a hell of a lot more than a radio spot.

The problem, Phil, ain't the kids. It's the kid's parents. We are now two generations out of "giving a chit" about racing--or cars, for that matter.

In fact, you are an exception to the rule, Mr. Jacques.

Regardless...I would further suggest the real issue here is the time and money involved to bring back the track to reasonable life.

Compounding that is the choice--More money for better cars or less money for lesser cars? Which one will either make more return or lose less?

At any rate, it is expensive to crawl or walk...I would suggest running is out of the question--at least in this case.

Technically, of course, you are right, but like your girl Hillary, it is a done deal.

I would suggest the real question is "How can racing survive in spite of today's non-automotively minded public?".

And although I am hoping it is a ways off, it may be club racing. Virtually 100% racer funded.

Finally, to underline Jacko's point, when you owned your car, what percentage of the total effort did you fund...?

[Phil Jacques]

Motorsports as a whole is stronger than ever I believe honestly, however there are so many different forms today that are easier for kids to get into on the cheap.

Drifting, Autocross, Rallycross Drag Racing and SCCA Track days are all cheaper and doesn't necessarily require a purpose built car that can't be street driven. I think that has some of the appeal also for younger generations.

Oval track has been overlooked by new generations. We NEED to find a way to appeal to them.

[OldSchool+]

"Motorsports as a whole is stronger than ever I believe honestly..."-PJ

I appreciate your passion, but do you have any attendance or gate $$ figures to support that?

F1 was sold recently. NASCAR is for sale as a white elephant, currently.

"We NEED to find a way to appeal to them."--PJII

Maybe a mascot? You are kind of cuddly!

The Desoto Dangerdog?!!

ps--"Drifting, Autocross, Rallycross Drag Racing and SCCA Track days are all cheaper [than stock car racing] and do not necessarily require a purpose built car that can't be street driven."--PJIII

Phil, I believe you just made Jacko's case for him...

[Phil Jacques]

"Motorsports as a whole is stronger than ever I believe honestly..."-PJ

I appreciate your passion, but do you have any attendance or gate $$ figures to support that?

I don't need numbers. I look at the buzz I see around. I NEVER hear oval track spoken of anywhere I go. I hear people talk about track days, rally cross, autocross, drag racing etc.

It's a fact that everyone wants to ignore. There are more affordable and grassroots options today than there ever were. I can take my Corvette and show up at a track day, autocross event or go to my local drag strip and then drive it home. I don't get paid at the end of the night, sometimes I might not even get a trophy. But I have a multipurpose car that I can use any time I want for any reason I want. That's what appeals to kids. You can build your shitbox honda or nissan up with no rules to make things expensive, and just go have FUN. That is the biggest thing we have lost in all of this is the fact that racing and cars in general are supposed to be FUN.

Step out of the "Oval track is everything" bubble for a minute and look around. Search on some other forums across the area... Florida Drift, Tampa Racing, Yellow Bullet etc. All FL based forums. You'll see tons of events etc and THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of members that do this simply for the enjoyment.

Oval racing has lost that in many aspects. It's no longer attractive to the youth or even as accessible as other options today. Unless we can make it more accessible, appealing and attractive as I said, it WILL die.

[OldSchool+]

Once again, sir, you do realize you are making Joe's pay-to-play point?

I like a little sports car racing, but it is a different attitude altogether than three cars heading into one at NSS.

Ditto with small time drag racing, drifting, RC boats, and on and on.

Interesting, but not short track racing.

Joe's point is that short track racing is inevitably heading there. Perhaps the vintage racers are already there.

Eventually, someone will pitch a one-off event and the racers will show up with their tires and gasoline and $250 entry fee to run. No prize money. Racer funded trophies.

And they will be happy to do so. But, I would suggest, like the other deals, there will be a much larger spread between the self-funded "haves" and "have nots".

Nonetheless, we gots what we gots, today and tomorrow. I am hoping Joe is wrong, but I am certainly not betting against it.

[zerofor]

But think about a few things

The two major dirt track series (World of Outlaws and Lucas Oil latemodels) seem to be doing ok.Big time payouts and front gates full.Drivers have merchandise trailers like Nascar.


Back in the old ASA and All-pro days blacktop was thriving dirt tracks were closing their doors.What changed.Largely it has been marketing.The dirt guys don't have huge venues to pack like Nascar but can certainly pack a local short track.The stands at events like the chili bowl look pretty full.Video I have seen from this weekends nationals at Bristol looked pathetic.The costs are killing this asphalt racing deal.It continues to shrink fields and gives people little reason to come back.How many of us want to travel hours only to see 8 cars when we get there? Or twelve?The Vores Compact division had 96 pre-entries at Bristol.No other division came anywhere close.Three or four hours of hot laps every race day plus a test and tune night then the actual race.Who can keep up with the expense of it all with only a couple grand up for grabs?Not very damn many.Funny thing is I look at a lot of dirt tracks and see billboards almost all the way around the track.I walk in most asphalt tracks and see maybe six or eight.Thats a big difference in track income.That helps pay purses and point funds.Like Phil said lack of getting the word out you even exist.And with the transient population here in Florida that changes every winter track owners in this state just can't assume people know that they are there.I came down here several times years back and never knew Citrus County was there and sat in Springhill and Weeki Wachee at my in laws places wishing I could sneak away to a race.I never knew how close I was until after I moved here.

[luke81]

The two major dirt track series (World of Outlaws and Lucas Oil latemodels) seem to be doing ok.Big time payouts and front gates full.Drivers have merchandise trailers like Nascar.

Even saying they are doing OK is a relative term....very few (if any) of those teams make enough money from the purse to be self-sufficient. They're mostly all owned by people rich enough to pull money from other streams to fund their racing.

The best thing that could happen to Florida pavement racing is Desoto stay closed up. Car counts don't need to be spread any thinner.

[OldSchool+]

C'mon now, race tracks go away fast enough on their own.

Careful what ya wish for and all that.

To your point, however... Along the way I have mentioned that in the good old days each track had their own weekly following of cars.

Yoho is trying to do just that. I hope his car count picks up and he is successful.

Optimally, Desoto would also have their own following. But that will mean low car counts and lots of Promoter cash out of pocket until the count builds up.

[luke81]

C'mon now, race tracks go away fast enough on their own.
Careful what ya wish for and all that.
To your point, however... Along the way I have mentioned that in the good old days each track had their own weekly following of cars.
Yoho is trying to do just that. I hope his car count picks up and he is successful.
Optimally, Desoto would also have their own following. But that will mean low car counts and lots of Promoter cash out of pocket until the count builds up.

Only so many cars to go around though. As for Showtime, eh....it looks like they're getting under ten cars in the mods and the late models and trucks. And they're running 8 freakin divisions most night. It doesn't take a genius to know why the front gate is weak.

[zerofor]

Luke to your point about W.O.O.& Lucas Lates

I am sure there are teams in the series that are..eh...on life support.With the big payout the two series offer up comes big expense.The racing thing has largely been geared that way for the last 40 plus years.But on the whole I think the two series as a whole are in far better shape than any traveling blacktop series right now.This year (2018)marks the 40th season of World of Outlaws.The Lucas Latemodel series are currently in their 15th season of existence.Name one traveling asphalt series other than Nascar that has existed longer or thrived at a nationally visible level longer? Back in the early 1970s the dirt sprint car stars were leaving in droves to run USAC events.The weekly track owners response to this situation? Shorter races less payout more unknown racers running local events.What did that do for them? Answer: it damn near wiped them out.The original ASA was thriving during this period as were a couple different southern blacktop series.How times have changed.It has completely flipped backwards now.The difference? Money,marketing and exposure via cable tv and social media.USAC's struggles and almost complete collapse during the late 1970s gave birth to the World of Outlaws series.The Lucas Oil series has largely replaced the former USAC stock car series with the exception of they have no paved track involvement.But what if they say tested the waters with a couple pavement races with their current driver line up? Right now that door could be opening.

[zerofor]

C'mon now, race tracks go away fast enough on their own.

Careful what ya wish for and all that.

To your point, however... Along the way I have mentioned that in the good old days each track had their own weekly following of cars.

Yoho is trying to do just that. I hope his car count picks up and he is successful.

Optimally, Desoto would also have their own following. But that will mean low car counts and lots of Promoter cash out of pocket until the count builds up.

I do also Old School.I support Yohos sentiments on making his track stand out by offering up a completely different schedule from anyone else.I just think it was a little too ambitious and a little too deplete of reward (payout).I think it was a nice sentiment but the smaller is better idea doesn't always fly.I truly wish him well I just don't see how driving away $30 pit passes to replace them with $15 dollar front gate admissions is a viable business model.

[OldSchool+]

Ah yes, depleted reward = low car count.

Overheard a car owner say "Horsepower? Hell, these things run on money".

Seems self evident enough, and yet...

[jacko241]

Phil, I truly admire your support of short track racing,but if it is to survive in it's current format, or anything close to it, it is going to take a LOT more people like you to make it happen. Unfortunately, we can choose to ignore it, but the handwriting is on the wall. I don't believe for one minute that there is any one cause of the downfall. I can name many. Many have already been cited above. One that was not mentioned in this thread that I believe is one of the bigger ones is NASCAR's creation of the Truck and Xfinity series. Semi wealthy team owners that would have owned local cars and put drivers in them stepped up the "Big Time". Kids nowadays are going from a year or so in Late Models, up to K&N, and then Trucks & Xfinity. Look how old Harry Gant, Geoff Bodine, DW,and Earnhardt Sr. were before they got to Cup. They were running what was the old Late Model Sportmans series, which we all know became Xfinity now. All the others have mostly been mentioned; costs, no interest in cars anymore, too many other entertainment options, blah, blah, blah. I would love to own a short track car again, but when I look at the cost to run at a weekly track, even just a couple times a month and just for fun with almost no chance of winning, it turns off even a diehard racer like myself. With the proliferation of other forms of motorsports as you mentioned, I see a different future for short tracks. Fewer of them, and mostly pay to play. You can't support a program getting 6-8 cars per class with either the front or the back gate.