Another "How to Fix Racing" Thread

[jacko241]

So Jacko doing the math that's an average of 45 cars per class all paying 2-300 bucks a piece to win a trophy. So what in your estimation motivates a guy to do that in obviously bigger numbers than guys running pretty much any division on a circle track? Because if so DAARA found the solution a long time ago since they race for trophies also.

I can only speak for myself, but my answer is I race for fun. I know I am not going to be a professional. I know I am not going to make a living at it. I find road racing more fun for the buck spent. Big fields, lots of cars to race against of equal speeds, legendary race tracks where we reach speeds in certain classes of over 190mph. The tech is focused on safety, so I am sure not all the cars are equal, but you are racing for a trophy and fun. The end of the first day, there is always a big social event with beer and snacks. I have experience in both disciplines, and without question the atmosphere at road racing events is much more friendly than at short track races. I understand when short track racing started, people were racing for grocery money, so it was very gritty and tough. Those days are long gone, and it appears many of the people still race with the same attitude. I think many people today just don't want to deal with that.

[OldSchool+]

All true, but...

I would suggest that SCCA types and Short Track folks are a different breed of cat.

That is, the purse/venue isn't the sole reason for the difference in gestalt, or atmosphere, in each form of racing.

Further believe that if they make the choice, the Stock car guys can put on clean t-shirts and their best behavior and go sports car racing.

The other direction? The IMSA crowd was pretty cranked up over Ricky Taylor's (clean, imo) pass at Daytona in Feb.

Am not sure they are ready for Wayne Anderson.

[zerofor]

And that is exactly what I have suspected for some time now as to why DAARA can bring more cars to a track sometimes than the track has as a whole.Less tech,less pressure more about the fun and social side of it.So when is somebody going to step up form a club and rent an available track?( Bronson for one is available for rent per their website)

[jacko241]

All true, but...

I would suggest that SCCA types and Short Track folks are a different breed of cat.

That is, the purse/venue isn't the sole reason for the difference in gestalt, or atmosphere, in each form of racing.

Further believe that if they make the choice, the Stock car guys can put on clean t-shirts and their best behavior and go sports car racing.

The other direction? The IMSA crowd was pretty cranked up over Ricky Taylor's (clean, imo) pass at Daytona in Feb.

Am not sure they are ready for Wayne Anderson.

I am not really sure I know what your point is. My point is that I think there are less people that want to race like they tend to at Saturday night short track events, hence the reason there are less people racing there, and tracks are closing. You are correct that the the stock car guys can go sporty car racing, and lots of them do. I am pretty sure we have more ex-short trackers than the short tracks have ex-road racers. I think Zerofor is on the right track.

[zerofor]

You might be surprised at the number of guys who have went oval track racing after they had previously done the SCCA stuff. I knew of quite a few in Ohio long ago and I know in the NASCAR ranks it has been common for some of the bigger names (and a few others) to wander over the SCCA way.I think its far more common then say an ex drag racer to go oval or road course racing.I think its a natural curiosity to wonder about some of the other forms of racing once you have experienced another for awhile.

[OldSchool+]

The point certainly was not to disparage anyone, just that it may be more apples and oranges than it appears.

And clearly I contradict myself, Joe, since I have seen you wheeling a modified at NSS and you know you will see me at Daytona.

All that aside and back to the original topic, clearly if track owners want to stay in control of the deal, larger fields of happy racers are necessary.

[Weftracing96]

I am not really sure I know what your point is. My point is that I think there are less people that want to race like they tend to at Saturday night short track events, hence the reason there are less people racing there, and tracks are closing. You are correct that the the stock car guys can go sporty car racing, and lots of them do. I am pretty sure we have more ex-short trackers than the short tracks have ex-road racers. I think Zerofor is on the right track.

You mean it's better to race clean and have a brew after the race, than to race with a guy who is 5 beers deep before the race as well as having to deal with getting into pit brawls and terrible track management? I have no clue why this is failing

[OldSchool+]

Weft:

Here are some of my assumptions, perhaps invalid assumptions, but assumptions nonetheless:

1) Track Owners & Promoters are trying to do the best they can.

2) Track Owners & Promoters and maybe even car owners will read this thread and it may spark a thought or two, perhaps better thoughts than my own.

3) Things will improve.

Otherwise, y'know, why bother typing...?

If you have encountered negative things at a given track, it may be time for another venue for at least a while. I have frequented different tracks at different periods of time along the way.

[jacko241]

You might be surprised at the number of guys who have went oval track racing after they had previously done the SCCA stuff. I knew of quite a few in Ohio long ago and I know in the NASCAR ranks it has been common for some of the bigger names (and a few others) to wander over the SCCA way.I think its far more common then say an ex drag racer to go oval or road course racing.I think its a natural curiosity to wonder about some of the other forms of racing once you have experienced another for awhile.

I am sure there are plenty. I myself started on dirt tracks, and dreamed of racing on the big speedways, and SCCA was an affordable way for a 21 year old kid who knew nothing about racing to try it.

[jacko241]

You mean it's better to race clean and have a brew after the race, than to race with a guy who is 5 beers deep before the race as well as having to deal with getting into pit brawls and terrible track management? I have no clue why this is failing

LOL, I hope that really doesn't happen often!

[fred23]

The SCCA and Daara for that matter, race once a month, if that. The people in the club race for fun and as a hobby and most with that mindset.
I think someone starting a circle track club would be successful but you would have to keep it to one or two classes, maybe full chassis and full frame, and race once a month, maybe at two or three different tracks a year.
Charge $200-300 to race for two days. Run whatever gas and tire you want. Guarantee number of races or laps in a two day event. Maybe have a tournament type set up and on Sunday have three or so final races with the real fast cars in one, the fast cars in one and the slower cars in one.
The biggest problem of having "races" in circle track is that there are numerous wrecks when people are racing. Maybe make the Saturday "heats" run a practice format with timing transponders and break them up on Sunday accordingly for the "races" on Sunday?
Have a big BBQ / Concert / Beer event on Saturday night for everyone, race somewhat early on Sunday and get people home halfway early.

I don't know the costs of track rentals, insurance and safety efforts but I would imagine at some point if you could get 100-150 cars on a weekend you could break even as racing club.

Boneman - you are honorary chairman to start.....Jacko has the SCCA knowledge, OS has the passion......there's a starting point.

[jacko241]

The SCCA and Daara for that matter, race once a month, if that. The people in the club race for fun and as a hobby and most with that mindset.
I think someone starting a circle track club would be successful but you would have to keep it to one or two classes, maybe full chassis and full frame, and race once a month, maybe at two or three different tracks a year.
Charge $200-300 to race for two days. Run whatever gas and tire you want. Guarantee number of races or laps in a two day event. Maybe have a tournament type set up and on Sunday have three or so final races with the real fast cars in one, the fast cars in one and the slower cars in one.
The biggest problem of having "races" in circle track is that there are numerous wrecks when people are racing. Maybe make the Saturday "heats" run a practice format with timing transponders and break them up on Sunday accordingly for the "races" on Sunday?
Have a big BBQ / Concert / Beer event on Saturday night for everyone, race somewhat early on Sunday and get people home halfway early.

I don't know the costs of track rentals, insurance and safety efforts but I would imagine at some point if you could get 100-150 cars on a weekend you could break even as racing club.

Boneman - you are honorary chairman to start.....Jacko has the SCCA knowledge, OS has the passion......there's a starting point.

Fred, I love your idea! I do believe there is a future for this.

[Boneman]

"Honorary Chairman", gee thanks. The LAST TIME I got involved with club management, it ended up costing me a marriage and $$$$.

Don't let my screw-up get in the way of your interesting idea.

[Boneman]

This thread has me recalling a day-dream that I let slip away... In the style of Rick Bristol's Charity Truck weekend, I always thought it would be cool to put on the Boneman Nationals (or call it whatever). Lease a track, generate cash and interest (simple, right?) and put on a great show.

It never got past the day-dream stage.

I used to picture my two favorite classes: sprints and figure 8's. Add in something different and exciting like pavement motorcycles or rallycross. And as much as I like local, Saturday night action on a budget, I would try to put on a show that did NOT star 40 year old Monte Carlos and other antiques.

[Weftracing96]

Weft:

Here are some of my assumptions, perhaps invalid assumptions, but assumptions nonetheless:

1) Track Owners & Promoters are trying to do the best they can.

2) Track Owners & Promoters and maybe even car owners will read this thread and it may spark a thought or two, perhaps better thoughts than my own.

3) Things will improve.

Otherwise, y'know, why bother typing...?

If you have encountered negative things at a given track, it may be time for another venue for at least a while. I have frequented different tracks at different periods of time along the way.

Honestly, no particular issues with any track. It's all of them. When the most late models you can get is the high teens (or 11 at Auburndale), who wants to drive to sit through a drawn out show for 5 hours and a bunch of 9 car races?