New Sportsman Rules for 2017...

[Ricky Brooks]

Here ya go Patrick lol

[Patrick Thomas 25]

Wow, I'm called a whiner for trying to make the $3500 dollar motor option competitive with the $10,000 plus dollar built motors. I guess if that's whining, then yeah I'm a whiner.

While we're at it tough guy, I'm fat, cheese would make me fatter, so no thanks.

You know I'm right with what I'm asking for, I think you should make a stiff front spring rule while your at it also, to get these cars off the ground so the guys that can't test during the week, have a chance to win too.

I'm out, gotta work on my built motor so I can keep up.

Patrick Thomas 111

[scottgarrity07]

I find it even more comical that someone who is supposed to be respected as "one of the best Techman in the country" would resort to pot shots like a typical anonymous karnac troll instead of addressing the genuine problems presented by these I'll conceived rules with some actual, you know, FACTS????? You can try to insult me by calling me a "blue moon racer" but I take no offense. I'm a working class guy who races when he can after paying the mortgage and putting food on the table. Pretty much like most of the Sportsman guys your glorious new rules leave behind. You probably don't care to remember but I am the guy that paid his own hard earned money to get a set of tires to New Smyrna to test when your boy Jeff from Hoosier refused to. Kim Brown had the good sense to lend me an ear that the tires were wearing out too fast and we needed a change (love you Kim!). So unlike you, I have actually put my money where my mouth is to actually help lower costs for the Sportsman guys. Funny how the car counts grew after that. Go figure! Patrick Thomas and Shannon Kelly also spent their time and money to test that day. Speaking of Patrick, you should listen to him. If anybody stands to gain an advantage with a built motor it's him. He waxed the field three nights at New Smyrna with a built motor during the World Series. You may have dq' d him on a minor infraction but you know that wasn't what made him fast. Well he's building another motor. And I'll bet it's got even more steam. The fact that he is coming forward to say the crate is being made obsolete shows that he cares more about the health of this class than exploiting his own advantage. You are destroying this class by trying to even the playing field by leaving the "Sportsman" type racer behind. It's a shame.

[Phil Jacques]

I find it very comical how someone that doesn't race here and one that races every blue moon throws stones at the ones trying to make racing better. We as a group will stand tall and keep digging. Thanks to all.

Ricky,

It doesn't matter where or how often someone races. A racer is a racer. Some (most unfortunately) just roll with the punches and take whatever they get thrown at them. Others, like myself and others who have posted here, realize that our opinion needs to matter in order to keep this sport healthy for the long term.

The sportsman division, through the past number of years, has grown not only in car count, but competitiveness and popularity overall aswell. It's often the most talked about division both here and on social media among those I follow.

Like Scott, I too have spent my own time and money to help with that tire test. I was the one that found and paid for the 800s that were sent down for that test. I had no skin in the game, and it didn't affect me one bit what tire you guys ended up on, but I saw a tire that lasted a long time and worked well on our Late Models at Stafford (a fairly similar car) at the time, and I wanted to see if I could help. As I said, not because I had any skin in the game, but because I care.

Just because I don't race there, means truly nothing when it comes to the passion I have for this sport, and my understand as a "little guy" racer myself, that big and drastic rules changes, can literally shut down a team or even end an entire career.

The sportsman division has been great over the past number of years partly in my opinion, because you don't need to have a huge budget to be competitive and win races. Patrick Thomas himself during the 2015 season was a great example of that. The crate motor really helped give this division the support is has today as a very inexpensive, reliable and competitive option to the bigger open/built motors.

With these rules being implemented, the inclusion of a 9" slick is going to really give the built/open motors a large advantage by putting the power to the ground more efficiently as well as many other things that have been outlined by myself and others in this post. Then in these rules hidden in parentheses, it says that it may go all crate in 2018 (which I believe was already there), which would be great, but then you are hurting the open motor guys who have spent all this money to make their open motors as bad ass as they are, and suddenly they are large boat anchors. What really should be done imo is that if the plan to go all crate in 2018 is a real one, then take just enough away from the built and open motors, that the crate becomes the better option. But in my eyes, even that isn't great because then we are at the other end of the spectrum hurting the other half of this group. What needs to be done, is there needs to be a middle ground found. Right now in my division up here, we have pretty much achieved that middle ground. Just a couple small changes that the tech guys ran by all of us at the final race and throughout the year are being considered to really make the competitive nature of crate vs built work harmoniously. Obviously, our cars are quite different from a FL sportsman, but it's proof that it can be done and certainly you have the knowledge and ability to pull this off.

Right now, with this rules package, it's going to become a lose/lose in my eyes. The rules in 2015 and 2016 were great and really didn't need much change. A true rules alignment, would see taking rules from every track, and finding the common grounds and finding ways to align them where people have to spend minimal amounts of money. Instead what has been done, is more than 50% of this rule book is brand new, and while a few of these rules are warranted, most of them are just going to do nothing more than hurt people financially, mostly the small time budget racers who really are the large base of this division.

To me, the fact that you would rather lob around insults, instead of come in here and present your case with your reasoning behind what you are doing and taking the time to explain things to people, is a huge disrespect to the racers. Our opinions matter when we are the ones spending the money on these cars. You should know this, you have been there yourself.

[zootv]

Here ya go Patrick lol

pretty cheesy ricky.i think you are supposed to be UN- biased JMO

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

I hope a good solution will come along to keep the Sportsman cars running. It's a great class that has been growing a lot lately. It may come down to Citrus/Showtime vs this new rules package.

[Patrick Thomas 25]

It has been told that the wheelman series which runs citrus and showtime will be using these rules also, I would only assume the 2 tracks citrus and showtime would as well.

Patrick Thomas 111

[justinr20]

Why

Why did there have to be so many rule changes holy cow. This has been the best class in Florida by far and now we have basically a pro late with a 602 or BUILT motor in them. Why not allow wide 5's by now? Why go to a 9" slick if you have to run 8" wheels? I have been a crate motor guy for just about as long as Patrick has because of the price and being about to race more often because of it. I just can't believe the built engine rules have changed so much when I though they were pretty close now. Not that this matters to anyone esp Ricky but who came up with the rule changes? Was there any drivers involved? Ricky I got one question on the rearend rules are you allowed to have the small quickchange gears in the bigger quickchange rearend?

[shorttrackcar1]

Remember when new Smyrna did away with the E-mod class look how much the big motor my class has grown at new Smyrna I think they average what 4/6 big motor mods a race now. see how successful that was everybody who had E mods either park them or sold them. Racers Didn't run out and build expensive motors like they thought everybody would . I think if people start building motors in the sportsman class that have big money .this is what's going to happen to the sportsman class . Car count will drop .

[Don Nerone]

OK here is my stone..

Some of you with cars call racecar eng with a list of what you need to fix your car to the new rules. Then everyone can see what it does cost.
supply the list and cost.
If you do this it will be on here for all to see.
might be a good thing and might not. You might use this for a sponsor hunt.

If its not broke why fix it?

[Renegade Racing Fuels]

I also heard the rumor that the Wheelman Series was maybe going to run the new rules. But as unpopular as they seem to be, there might be a change of plan.

[openwm53]

WoW

This seems like DeJavoo........or however its spelled. Maybe my driver coalition isn't the worst idea ever ?

[Phil Jacques]

Some interesting stuff took place in the NSS drivers meeting last night. A poll was taken and 23 of the 25 drivers that were on hand, are against this rules package and the major changes they require. Now apparently, New Smyrna decided that they are going to stick with 2016 Rules, with the exception of a couple body modifications and a couple other minor changes.

Something else interesting that I am finding out... Bronson Speedway tested the new American Racer slick that will be used on Sportsman in the Sunshine State Challenge Series. It proved to have much more grip, and was 2-3 tenths faster than the Hoosier slick on a tight car, expected to be nearly 1/2 second faster with setup adjustments to compliment the new tire. Looks like the crate motor is all but dead and buried in that series...

[Phil Jacques]

I kind of figured this might be appropriate, since this is what always seems to happen.

I will say what was said in the beginning... Things were NOT broken. There was no reason to try and fix them.

[ocalasp76]

Some interesting stuff took place in the NSS drivers meeting last night. A poll was taken and 23 of the 25 drivers that were on hand, are against this rules package and the major changes they require. Now apparently, New Smyrna decided that they are going to stick with 2016 Rules, with the exception of a couple body modifications and a couple other minor changes.

Something else interesting that I am finding out... Bronson Speedway tested the new American Racer slick that will be used on Sportsman in the Sunshine State Challenge Series. It proved to have much more grip, and was 2-3 tenths faster than the Hoosier slick on a tight car, expected to be nearly 1/2 second faster with setup adjustments to compliment the new tire. Looks like the crate motor is all but dead and buried in that series...

Yes. Kim announced at the meeting before a meeting with the sportsman drivers that they probably will not fix something that is not broken at NSS. She said the class has been on a good roll for the last 2 years at NSS, and to change the rules would probably kill the class. Other tracks should follow her words. JMHO...
-JIM-