Sportsman car owners @ Desoto and Auburndale

[JMITCH]

Hmm, my headers bolted right up.

[Phil Jacques]

Something that seems to be overlooked also is the longevity of these engines with minimal maintenance. In the long run, the crate engine will save you a great amount of money compared to a built piece.

[Cuzzone88]

Even if it cost $6000 to switch over, which I think is high. I've heard of multiple sportsman competitors with $9500+ in professionally built motors. Motors that have to be rebuilt every year. Crate typically last 4+ years with no rebuild cost other than valve springs and oil change and when it blows it cost you $3200 to replace. Built motors that run up front cost $9000+ and need to be refreshed ever year for a few thousand $$ (rings, bearings, valve springs, gaskets, timing chain, rocker arms, cost to pay engine builder to rebuild etc) And at any given time will blow sky high.

I understand the low budget racer, I understand the "ive built my own motors for ever and it only cost me $1500 because I've got a lot of stuff laying around". Unfortunately there are a handful of cars that spend any money it takes to run up front and they are ruining the motor aspect of it for the "home built motor" guys. The crates and home builts cant run with the big store bought motors and before the class gets to far out there, something needs to be done about it.

[myron]

I wonder if anyone has either chassis or engine dynode a crate verses a LEGAL built motor to see the differences.

[fred23]

Easy solution to the crate vs built issue........

First, Put out a parts list of the crate motor parts and let guys build their own motors. Second, put a $3500 claim rule in. You can buy any motor for $3500, built or crate. If someone wants to take a chance and spend $5 or $6 grand on a built motor and it gets claimed, thats on them.

Give the built motor guys a year to run their existing motors, instead of refreshing them, they can rebuild them with the correct crate parts.

[turnleft]

cam doctor

Love crates, but you have to have good tech, and a cam doctor at the track, or it will not work. No one will show up with an illegal crate if Ricky is doing tech. But the problem is when Ricky is not there, sorry to say most of the tech other then Ricky is sub-par in the state of Florida

There is no question, that legal crate engines running against legal crate engines is the most cost effective way to go for all racers. It is also an easier road for new people getting into the sport.

Just my two cents...Vince P.

[xracer54]

If you go with a Crate

Even if it cost $6000 to switch over, which I think is high. I've heard of multiple sportsman competitors with $9500+ in professionally built motors. Motors that have to be rebuilt every year. Crate typically last 4+ years with no rebuild cost other than valve springs and oil change and when it blows it cost you $3200 to replace. Built motors that run up front cost $9000+ and need to be refreshed ever year for a few thousand $$ (rings, bearings, valve springs, gaskets, timing chain, rocker arms, cost to pay engine builder to rebuild etc) And at any given time will blow sky high.

I understand the low budget racer, I understand the "ive built my own motors for ever and it only cost me $1500 because I've got a lot of stuff laying around". Unfortunately there are a handful of cars that spend any money it takes to run up front and they are ruining the motor aspect of it for the "home built motor" guys. The crates and home builts cant run with the big store bought motors and before the class gets to far out there, something needs to be done about it.

IF you are going to go Crate Motors only, then you need to have a Gear Rule also. The Pro Lates sound sick when they hit the Rev Limit at the pit gate

[crystal]

Isn't that what rules are for. I don't see a problem with built motors. Fast time at desoto was set by a crate. I think most of the top ten were crates. Why do crate cars feel they are at such disadvantage. It's not like they are not winning. In fact most of the races won last year were by crates. If tech does its job there is no reason why we can't run both. If someone spends 20,000 dollars on a motor and you spend 5,000. Tech still has to do its job to see that they both are not cheated. Because they both can be. My built motor cost about 6000. And I know it could be the same if not less for a crate but it allows my dad and I to build the engine and or our machine shop guy to try to come up with the good combination. As it has been done for years and years. Rules are in place for us to follow or cheat. It's techs job to get us right. I prefer to build our engines instead of buying crates. If we went to an all crate class a lot of people may bow out. Myself included. If we all ran the same motor. The guys that run up front will still be the guys up front. Why not run a shock rule too. Same shock for everyone on all for corners. Same springs on all four corners. You want to even they playing field. That's the best way. All crates. All same springs and all same shocks and see who does the best.

[Patrick Thomas 25]

Alright I've stayed off of this thread as long as I could stand it.
First, Stuart why would you build a motor for more money, that you think has less of a chance of winning? You just sold a truck that had a 602 motor in it, you have experience with both of these motors, you tell me which one drives like it has more power. Oh wait, you already did you built a built motor. You know the extra 40 to 50 points of gear makes the built motor a better race motor, but harder on tires. In the 100 lapper at Desoto, built motor cars dominated the first 50 laps, as the tires gave up the crate cars got better and better, and ended up getting the top finishes. You tell me how many races are 75 laps or more the rest of this year, 1 it's a 200 lapper at Desoto, so the rule changes look to have tried to do 2 things, 1 help make the crate cars be more competitive in shorter races, 2 take some of the gear away on built motor cars, to help make tires last longer. Sounds like a win, win to me.

I'm building a built motor to run these rules, because in my opinion even with the 100 pound penalty for the high compression heads, and the 6500 chip, you will still come out ahead of the crate in a 50 lap race.

I agree tech the shit out of every type of motor, crate or built, toss the guys that are wrong, EVERY TIME.

Glad to see Auburndale and Desoto working together, wish others would follow suit.

I just wish these rules would have been out earlier, I know this whole deal came together pretty late, but there were very big differences between Auburndale and Desoto's sportsman rules, with those 2 tracks on board and forming a series together, the rule books needed to match. You can't have a series running track rules only, now they match.

See you at Auburndale for the first race.

Patrick Thomas 111

[OldSchool+]

My $.02--one set of rules, crate or built, regardless, one set of rules.

[crystal]

I'm not knocking the crates. I think they are great. I have years of motors and parts lying around and the motor was in the car when I bought it. Just changed stuff around because my pops likes to do things his way which he can't do on a crate. Does a built motor have more horsepower. Maybe. The torque off the corner of a crate with the four barrel is far superior than my motor but I have good top end. Which is why a 6500 chip rule rules me out. I turn mine about 7000. As far as built motors dominating. Lol not even close. I'm not sure what cars had what for motors but the top 4 were crates and 6 th and 5 th were built. Yes it looked as though they fell off but the 84 had brake issues and the 1 never even got up front till the end. Yes I was leading but I had a wire come off my ignition which ended my night but I did not burn off my tires. If in a short run a built motor is faster. Then why was fast time a crate. And 3 of the top five were crates. The 71 was a built motor who was second but it had wide fives on it. Not sure what motor it had in it. I felt the competition was equal. I have a built motor because of preference. And the reason I quit the trucks because of all the crate motor drama. Also crate motors have been winning most of the races around Florida these past few years with Williamson,Morris, yourself, the 67. The 88 and so on. Outside of the 79 car which is now the 1 at desoto I can't think of to many built motors winning. The problem is with all you guys spending 20,000 on rolling chassis. Or at least 15,000. Because I'm seeing cars for sale for 25,000 and 30,000 with a so called 3200 motor in it. Maybe instead of complaining about people building a so called 15,000 motor we should look in the mirror. You want equality in racing get rid of the split valve shocks and soft spring set ups. Maybe say run straight up shocks in front and rear and specify what springs we all need to run. Then we will see who handles. That might show your horsepower difference. Because I don't have 1000 in my shocks and 1000 in springs ect. I run hillbilly set up with my built motor just like the old days. So you want all crates that's fine as long as we specify no split valve shocks all running same springs ect. Because we should all be the same right. Because if I have to run a crate it will be a Ford.

[crystal]

It's all good though. I just won't be running the series because I would need to buy a distributor as I have the MSD which is legal at both desoto and auburndale until this series. And I don't have the money to change my cam to try to get into the 6500 chip rule powerband. My motor just won't run at 6500 rpm the way it should. Plus I still don't think crates should get a weight break. So I'll stay local. If it changes in the future I'll make my decision on what to do then. It would have been nice to race the series but it is what it is. Good luck to all running. And to be clear. I'm not knocking anyone running a crate motor. You all bought one knowing the rules ahead of time nut still bought them. So why try to change the rules after you got them. Suck it up and move on.