nascars elephant in the room

[aquarius1234]

Am I taking crazy pills or has anyone else noticed that nascar still has cars that are super stable and a great aero package with little HORSEPOWER,

HOW ABOUT HIGH HORSEPOWER(AND LITTLE AERO)
THAT WAY THESE CHAFFEURS WOULD HAVE TO LIFT IN THE CORNERS

NOW THAT TONY STEWART WONT COMPLAIN THAT THE CARS ARE UNDRIVEABLE,

WE COULD SEPARATE THE BOYS FROM THE MEN BY MAKING THE TIRES TWO INCHES SMALLER/NARROWER,

A DRAG RACE TO THE CORNERS,

AT WHICH POINT SKILL WOULD BE A FACTOR,

UNTIL THEN THEY ARE JUST ROLLING BILLBOARDS,

JUST MY OPINION,

ANYONE CARE TO REPLY??

[Boneman]

I attended my first Daytona 500 in 30+ years. While I love the improvements to the facility, the atmosphere of the event, a huge crowd, an inspiring fly-over, etc. the race itself was a snoozer until the last 20 laps. I actually took two short naps in my $215 seat. If I was watching at home, I would have been dead-ass asleep for hours.

Never have I seen such a static show! For most of the afternoon, the slowest car was 2-3 seconds behind the leaders. Yes, the cars could run side by side, but they had such a hard time advancing any positions at all.

Time to make a change in the caliber of the racing. At this point, the draft effect is so strong that it over-powers so many other factors like skill and experience. "Parity" has been the goal for many years, and now they have achieved it to such a high degree that passing, real passing, was non-existent.

[JMITCH]

Did you really pay $215?

[egspeedway]

Boneman is absolutely right. The races have become insufferably long and BORING. My generation 1943 was taught that patience was a virtue. Each subsequent generation has become less patient much of it due to the instant info and outcome world we live in today. I would love to see them adopt a sprint car format. Time trials, heats, consolation race and maybe a dash for cash to see how the top 6 or 8 will line up. This format would certainly break up the monotony and guess what the driver would have to give 100% of the time.The feature need not be longer than a 100 laps and shorter would not make me feel cheated. Yes the rolling billboards will get less screen presence but if the trade off is more viewers the sponsors haven't really lost.

[OldSchool+]

To Recap...

>In 1958 Big Ol Bill built Big Ol Daytona with banking so that a near stock automobile could reach Indy Car speeds. They did.
>But, they got faster and faster and look like an airplane wing when sideways. Hence, restrictor plates.
>All manner of aero (and plates, and etc) has been used to compensate for:
>>Single File Shows
>>Crash A-Ramas
>>Two car drafts
>>And bump drafting.

They have it "right"-- they are close, but not bumping, and not crashing.

They just cannot pass.

And NASCAR will not flatten the banking.

It is a tricky corner they have painted themselves into, indeed.

ps--I agree the answer is in the tires, narrower and bias ply would do it--but they do not want to go there, either.

[jacko241]

Television ratings were down again for all races during Speedweeks including the 500. It has gotten so corny and hokey very few of the hardcore fans will watch any more.

[ancrdave]

Well, it had to be better than the first Daytona 500 I attended in 1972... A. J. Foyt was a lap-and-a-half ahead of second place finisher Charlie Glotzbach... Jim Vandiver and Benny Parsons were 3rd and 4th, each 6 laps behind Foyt... The 10th place finisher, Vic Elford, was 18 laps behind... Foyt led 167 of the 200 laps and was clearly the fastest car... Just 3 cautions slowed the race for 17 laps of yellow... 40 cars started and 18 finished... David Boggs was the last car running, 35 laps behind Foyt...

This year 31 of 40 cars finished on the lead lap and 35 of the 40 starters were still running at the end with the winning margin .10 of a second... It may have been a snoozer but the level of competition is much better than back in '72...

[OldSchool+]

I think the "pioneer" fans have largely passed on, and the Richard and Cale fans are getting there pretty quick.

The Jeffy boy fans had their day, were not very dedicated, and went back to Tofu or something.

And today's generation is just not in the game.

So, theoretically, we have gone away from racing more than it has gone away from us.

[Darren]

In 1972 or before that I don't think a 18 year old kid could get in one of the real race cars and drive it. I know that Denny H. said something about Brad K. not be able to play basketball. Most likely Jr. Johnson, David Pearson, Richard Petty and most of the rest of the greats could not either. They were working their butts off racing more races a year then these so called over paid superstars of today. They were just trying to make a living doing what they loved and bringing joy to the real race fans, small in numbers but true fans to the sport.

[Don Nerone]

Well, it had to be better than the first Daytona 500 I attended in 1972... A. J. Foyt was a lap-and-a-half ahead of second place finisher Charlie Glotzbach... Jim Vandiver and Benny Parsons were 3rd and 4th, each 6 laps behind Foyt... The 10th place finisher, Vic Elford, was 18 laps behind... Foyt led 167 of the 200 laps and was clearly the fastest car... Just 3 cautions slowed the race for 17 laps of yellow... 40 cars started and 18 finished... David Boggs was the last car running, 35 laps behind Foyt...

This year 31 of 40 cars finished on the lead lap and 35 of the 40 starters were still running at the end with the winning margin .10 of a second... It may have been a snoozer but the level of competition is much better than back in '72...

I was at Daytona for my first time in years. The money is everyware.
They have invented a new way to grt that money out of the racer.
They are approved only venders for every nut and bolt and the prices art out of this world. A set of tires around $ 2700 $1800 for a radiator.
Then I looked at the purse...WOW over the top. Now I see why there are start and park drivers.
Now for the cup race from a promoters point of view it don't get any better than that. Side by side 3 wide on the last lap with 9 cars that could win on the last lap.. Don't get the snooze thing.

don62

[aquarius1234]

The Snooze Thing

thanks for the reply,
I guess the snooze thing is that they are mirror driving,
no one has any power with the restrictor plate,
if we removed the plate and upped the horsepower,
BUT REDUCED THE TIRE SIZE,
WE WOULD HAVE A DRAG RACE TO THE CORNER,
NOW ONCE IN THE CORNER THERE WOULD BE SKILL INVOLVED,
LIFTING OF THE THROTTLE,
AS IT IS NOW ITS FOOT TO THE FLOOR,
WHATS NEXT FULL THROTTLE CRUISE CONTROL!

MORE EXCITING TO SEE DRIVERS LOOKING OUT FRONT THAN BEHIND,
SO 200 MORE HORSEPOWER AND TWO TO THREE INCHES LESS WIDTH ON THE TIRES,

HOW ABOUT THAT FOR FUN

[jacko241]

Well, it had to be better than the first Daytona 500 I attended in 1972... A. J. Foyt was a lap-and-a-half ahead of second place finisher Charlie Glotzbach... Jim Vandiver and Benny Parsons were 3rd and 4th, each 6 laps behind Foyt... The 10th place finisher, Vic Elford, was 18 laps behind... Foyt led 167 of the 200 laps and was clearly the fastest car... Just 3 cautions slowed the race for 17 laps of yellow... 40 cars started and 18 finished... David Boggs was the last car running, 35 laps behind Foyt...

This year 31 of 40 cars finished on the lead lap and 35 of the 40 starters were still running at the end with the winning margin .10 of a second... It may have been a snoozer but the level of competition is much better than back in '72...

Dave, I think different people have different ideas about what is good racing. For me, watching 35 cars drone around in a pack for 3 hours is not racing. To me, racing is about a lot of different aspects, which include speed, reliability, skill, courage, and strategy. In today's racing, all of the cars run about the same speed, they all are reliable. Even my favorite type of racing has fallen victim to this, sports car endurance racing. It used to be fun to see who could last for 12 or 24 hours and still go fast. In the over saturated information world we live in, everyone with the money can know everything. Maybe the sport has just changed too much for people like me. I fell in love with how it used to be.

[ancrdave]

I was just making a statistical comparison... I've pretty much enjoyed every Daytona 500 I went to but have no interest in going anymore... Too much traffic... ridiculous prices etc. Used to be so much fun going in the infield and setting up camp with a bunch of family and friends for Saturday & Sunday and it was relatively cheap too... Brought our own food, made a big campfire (not allowed in the infield anymore) and just had fun... Same thing in July... Come in the day before, watch the Paul Revere at midnight, cook some more food, grab a couple hours sleep then watch the Firecracker the next morning... Go down and hang out in the garage area after the race, come back and have some more food, take a nap while the traffic cleared then head over to Volusia for NDRA races that night... fun times to say the least... DIS and ISC have really taken all the fun out of attending (at least for me)...