The Cost of Racing, JMO ?

[dannyuscg]

Is it just me or has short track racing in Florida killed itself?

Cases in point:

Street Stocks = It is 5x cheaper to build a motor with a 4412 and 2101 Performer on it with a set of headers than it is to find a decent cast iron intake, exhaust manifolds.

And also more cost efficient and safer in the end to bolt in a 9" than it is to keep breaking weak GM axles and gears.

Late Model, Crate Model, Pro, Super what ever you want to call it. They all look the same and have lost their appeal. Lets get back to the OUTLAW STYLE ! It takes $200 worth of aluminum and a little imagination to hang a sweet body. A run what you brung motor with a $7500 dollar claim to help cost, set a few height and weight rules. Let people get creative with the chassis again. Bob Hamke built some of the coolest cars I've ever seen in my life as a kid.

Mini Stocks = Or should I say overpriced 4 cylinder super late models. You guys have flat killed yourselves. 8 & 10K on a motor that makes only 200hp max on a good day. Stick to the reliable formula of Corollas, Pintos, and Mustangs. I can make a door and fender for any of those with my break and a sheet of 20g.

I'm just saying a lot of us owner/drivers need to start speaking up and working on rules with the track owners, officials and other owner/drivers to save our sport.

There is no point in having a fortune wrapped up in a car without a series to run it in, or only to have 3 other cars show up for an event.

Like I said this is just my opinion. Please feel free to comment or just let out your frustration also.

Thanks, Danny

P.S. Dirt Latemodels at CCMP that is the coolest looking thing I have seen in years.

[ovalracer44]

Mini Stocks = Or should I say overpriced 4 cylinder super late models. You guys have flat killed yourselves. 8 & 10K on a motor that makes only 200hp max on a good day. Stick to the reliable formula of Corollas, Pintos, and Mustangs. I can make a door and fender for and of those with my break and a sheet of 20g.

I tried to say this and got flamed all the way across the state.

[SeminoleWind]

It's time to get back to "stock" cars. I'm not talking about Pintos, they were built 35 years ago. I was searching the junkyards for metric chassis parts the other day, the junkyards are full of 1990's and early 2000 6 cylinder front wheel drive cars. A mid 90's Toyota Camry would actually make a good looking race car. I realize front wheel drive cars are a pain in the rear to work on, but this is what we have today. I don't care what ANYONE says, the least expensive way to go racing is to start with a STOCK car and add safety features, nothing more. When we were racing Pintos, we always had one or two donor cars laying around. When you needed a part, you went and pulled it, did'nt cost you anything. Then track owners started to permit headers ($250.00), racing springs ($300.00), lightweight flywheels and clutches ($750.00), Holley carbs ($600.00) etc.
We (the circle track crowd) are not alone, the drag race folks are stuck with 60's and 70's era rear wheel drive V-8's as well.
The road racing circuits are the only ones who have embraced using truly stock cars and their car counts are generally very good.

[georgep]

Turn Back The Clock

I have a vintage, Bought it ready to run $6,000.00. The car is as safe as todays ride and half the cost. Check out NVRA and other vintage groups. NVRA races at real tracks at real speed.
Lets really look at the truth in cost:
The class we will look at is just any class at the track.
You go to the track and you spend, pit pass, gas, food, race gas, pit crew gets in, who pays. Can not forget the wife/girlfriend. And we have just spent around $350.00 to $450.00 depending on how far you came and what you use to tow your car.
You have a good night and WIN, you get $750.00. BUT you wore out your tires and the engine was pushed HARD. So you possible gain of $350.00 might just GO AWAY quick!
This is a HOBBY and just like any HOBBY there must be a budget to live with so you can survive in the real world.
The cost of racing is out of this world and there is no end in sight since nobody wants to offend anyone and cut something.
You want a great race? Get the cost under control and get 40 cars trying to make 24 spots. Fans will love the show, the promoter can afford to make upgrades and everybody gets to do what is in there BLOOD race!.
Get the cost down or you will join USA, JAX, ST Augustine when your race car is replaced by a NEW SHINNY CAR to get to work because you can no longer afford to race.

[modracer22]

I agree with a lot that has been said but no matter what rules you come up with the track is going to have to up the purse. When my dad ran mini's back in the late 60s it payed either 125 or 150 to win and I think know it's around 225. I know tracks are struggleing to make it. I agree with doing something like a outlaw superlate. The bodies are 1000 instead of the 2500 or so for the abc and most people can hang them and not have pay someone to hang the abc. I don't think you will ever see anything like that because you have one person in the state that controls what the superlates do. If a promotor could pull off the outlaw thing I think it would work. I agree sometimes you can't even tell a well built sportsman from a superlate.

[flvideo]

George, it sounds like you are describing the United Dirt Late Model Challenge Series. We took late models that were already existing and put together a package where they all could run together with out spending a lot more money. We have averaged 48 cars this year at each show. Most of the bodies, which I might add are made on a brake, cost way less to construct and they are easier to repair when they get torn up. At Volusia we had 61 cars vieing for 30 starting spots. 30 went home with out racing the feature. But they will be back and try agin. Bob.......

[georgep]

George, it sounds like you are describing the United Dirt Late Model Challenge Series. We took late models that were already existing and put together a package where they all could run together with out spending a lot more money. We have averaged 48 cars this year at each show. Most of the bodies, which I might add are made on a brake, cost way less to construct and they are easier to repair when they get torn up. At Volusia we had 61 cars vieing for 30 starting spots. 30 went home with out racing the feature. But they will be back and try agin. Bob.......

Bob that is ONE IN A ROW! Now who is going to do the same for the modifieds and other classes so the drivers and owners have a chance to at least be competitive without going broke?

If you check the back history Glenn Donnely started DIRT with a HOME BASE TRACK that was the key to the rapid spread of Drivers Independent Race Teams. You need a base of operations where you can PLAY with the rules formula and have a CORE of cars to test it with. When something works USE IT do not reinvent the wheel. Bob's statement is great example of how it can work.

[Dana Barlow]

Got a go this way

Bob that is ONE IN A ROW! Now who is going to do the same for the modifieds and other classes so the drivers and owners have a chance to at least be competitive without going broke?

If you check the back history Glenn Donnely started DIRT with a HOME BASE TRACK that was the key to the rapid spread of Drivers Independent Race Teams. You need a base of operations where you can PLAY with the rules formula and have a CORE of cars to test it with. When something works USE IT do not reinvent the wheel. Bob's statement is great example of how it can work.

Time dose repete;
These guy's are making scents,I did just about what there talking about in 1979 when Hialeah Speedway[GMRA]was down to about only 5 late modal's showing up,they had got out of site on cost,and even the board was going to cut the class. Myself and Rosh got all the lower doller Late Modal owner's together [27 car owners showed,we did not include the 5 that were racing the super high cost cars,there good men,but would only wish things to stay as is.]at Rosh's home for a meeting and worked out why they were not coming out racing any more.
It was cost *and the fact they all feel* they could not even have a shot at the win. We then worked out a set of Late Modal rule's that made these 27 car owners feel they may have a shot,we started the new year with those rules and a great car count for about 4+ months,tell GMRA Board by the high $$$ racers nagging, started eatting away at the cut cost rules,tell we were back to low car counts by the end of the year,just not as bad as before.
We had put in;Spec. hard tire,crank hight so dry sump did not give big adv.,steel heads & steel wheels only,spec unmod 4bbl carb 750 only. At the time that was a longway from alum rims and super soft tires with any 4bbl plus low CG from drysumps and super low motors.
Yes,for the most part some of the same guys won the races even with the lower doller rules inplace,but the car count and race[show] was far better for a time.
The high doller guys were pissed off,not one said thanks for saving the class,they evadently thought they would of raced LM anyway,the GMRA Board was going to dump the class.
Racing is after all a lot of guys all wishing for a rule that lets only them have the best tires,biggist HP & greatist handeling. So rules are offten weird.

[georgep]

RIP racing KILLED by CUBIC DOLLAR TEAMS that feel if you do not have as much money as me GO HOME!
Sorry but that is so true to often. YOu get the $$$$ people up in arms and the track owner is between a rock and a hard place. Remember Glenn D. he sent them packing.

[andre]

Go ahead guys, stand in line

André

[Todd McCreary]

the junkyards are full of 1990's and early 2000 6 cylinder front wheel drive cars.

oh.

please God, yes, race those.

[Todd McCreary]

YOu get the $$$$ people up in arms and the track owner is between a rock and a hard place.

have to disagree.

if you want crowds in the grandstands and full fields of cars, you'll keep the expensive parts out and enforce the rules impartially no matter how much money a car owner has.

going the other way might get you a couple of haulers bringing 10+ people a week with them into the pits ... but you're going to run everybody else in the pits off, kill the show, and lose everybody on the grandstand side.

if you don't fill your grandstands, how are you going to present the track as a "marketing opportunity" to sponsors?

if the promoter/owner can't look any further ahead than next month, that's what you get.

a healthy track looks to make it's profit from grandstand admission, concession sales and marketing arrangements. a sick one lives off of the pit gate and parts/fuel sales.

[roundtracker]

High cost of racing

I think another reason the costs are so high is sponsors. Remember in the seventies and eighties when there really wasn't sponsored cars? Yes, you always had some sponsors on the cars but they really weren't giving that much! Guys didn't want to wreck or hurt anything because they had to fix it or pay to get it fixed themselves!
Now they even have more than one car in the upper classes and seem to have the attitude if I wreck it we will just run the back up car. Get the primary fixed and then wreck it again!
I am not blaming sponsors for the problem but some of the drivers that don't have to worry about the consequences!