Showtime Supers

[zerofor]

Last time I check "up north" the cost to just hang an outlaw late model body, to be competitive, and run up front, was way more then a ABC body. , do you know what the lap time difference at NSS would be with a good wedge body, against a not so good one??

-Radios are a safety item. Period.

-If you think the car count is bad now, take out all the little rich kids, and your down to 2 or 3 cars. I thank god we have some kids that want to race at all, if there paying for it or not, without them there is no future in racing.

-Last but not lease, if you like how they do it up north, move back up north.

over and out, "single file, increase the car count" Vince

If we moved back north we would be watching snowmobiles race in the winter and you would be watching gators because you wouldn't have enough butts in the seat to keep a go cart track open.How would you like that?One needs to watch and learn from the other before all of them fail.There are good and bad things being done in both parts of the country.But NO promoter seems willing to go experience another tracks racing in another state anymore.Their used to be promoters workshops during the winter months.I suppose that doesn't happen anymore.It probably died with leaded gas and full service gas stations.Guys used to pull down here from up north and sometimes you even had a guy or two come from florida or Georgia up north.PUMP gas and diesel prices are down a little bit right now.So how many promoters are dialing ONE DAMN PHONE NUMBER to try to get some guys from the Midwest to come down and run some of the big payout events like the upcoming Governors Cup or Showtimes big late model race in two weekends or Auburndales.I bet that's a BIG FAT ZERO.Come on guys nobody has this thing figured out yet,you can see it in the car counts and fan attendance.ALL promoters and track owners are slidind down the same slope.Things CAN AND COULD be changed but not if they don't want to listen and change or take the attitude move back where you came from.Thats just a bunch of lazy B.S.

[oslm6]

If you can cut and bend sheets of aluminum, then an Outlaw body is much cheaper than going with a template body. Motors in some of the Outlaws can be pretty pricey, but some tracks don't need the horsepower and can run cheaper engines and still run competitive.

[zerofor]

And I have no problem with letting "spoiled rich kids" race because when I was racing in the 70s and early 80s their were guys that had more money to spend than me too.They were just all 15 years older than me.I was a kid,but a poor one.And it sure felt good to outrun and finish ahead of somebodys cubic money.

[Weftracing96]

I live here, I'll stay here as long as I very well please. But again, funny how they can do double file restarts up north without issue. They never whine about going to single file restarts. Drivers control the cars, use your heads and double file restarts work just fine. Based on the argument that you quit racing because of double file restarts, all you are telling me there is northern racers are superior. I won't go that far, but again, use your head and double file is fine. What next, plastic bubbles around the cars?

[exnyer]

And I have no problem with letting "spoiled rich kids" race because when I was racing in the 70s and early 80s their were guys that had more money to spend than me too.They were just all 15 years older than me.I was a kid,but a poor one.And it sure felt good to outrun and finish ahead of somebodys cubic money.

Please, do not get me wrong, I do not think that they should not race, but that is part of the reason for some of the wrecks on double file starts/restarts, it is inexperience. On asphalt tracks especially the bullrings you really do need a spotter, crap happens quick.

I am still a supporter of having the supers, mods and trucks in 3 seperate series, visiting different tracks on a set schedule with time in between the races to do maintenance, fix,rebuild the cars if needed and a chance to build up some money to race again, then the tracks can concentrate on building their lower support classes such as sportsman, pro late models, street stocks, bombers, mod minis, kid 4cyl, figure 8's, busses.

Racing will not survive with they way the tracks are working against each other, but until the promoters,owners decide to step up, it will always be business as usual.

[Weftracing96]

Please, do not get me wrong, I do not think that they should not race, but that is part of the reason for some of the wrecks on double file starts/restarts, it is inexperience. On asphalt tracks especially the bullrings you really do need a spotter, crap happens quick.

I am still a supporter of having the supers, mods and trucks in 3 seperate series, visiting different tracks on a set schedule with time in between the races to do maintenance, fix,rebuild the cars if needed and a chance to build up some money to race again, then the tracks can concentrate on building their lower support classes such as sportsman, pro late models, street stocks, bombers, mod minis, kid 4cyl, figure 8's, busses.

Racing will not survive with they way the tracks are working against each other, but until the promoters,owners decide to step up, it will always be business as usual.

That is why it continually limps along on life support, year after year, never really thriving, until a track owner runs out of money and patience and the next guy comes in thinking that he will be the one with the magic formula. It will survive, but is it really considered living?

[UREZ2PASS]

Have you guys considered that maybe there are fewer new people starting to race and many existing racers finding other things to do ?

I remember years ago the bass fishing community started the campaign "Take a kid fishing". This was to ensure the future of bass fishing.

Is anyone really working on introducing racing to younger people ? Oh wait, y'all bitch about the 15 year olds racing, you're killing the future of the sport with that mentality.

[OldSchool+]

Both sides of the KidsR(ace)Us argument are valid. That is...

A) The money involved drives other cars away from the track.
and
B) The money involved is bringing cars to the track.

BUT, here is the deal. To draw an extreme, if a late model was $1000, I would have got my kid one, and a second one for myself.

In other words, you get more young ones, medium age ones, old ones, you name it--if they can afford it.

The trick is to mostly negate the money with appropriate rules. That way you get not only the rich Dads/guys, but the almost rich, maybe even lower on the scale, along with them to fill the field.

Initial investment, tires, tow vehicle, race gas, bent parts... It would be plenty expensive if the tracks gave out engines.

Another rediculous extreme, but it is really quite simple. Cut costs, get mo cars.

[exnyer]

Both sides of the KidsR(ace)Us argument are valid. That is...

A) The money involved drives other cars away from the track.
and
B) The money involved is bringing cars to the track.

BUT, here is the deal. To draw an extreme, if a late model was $1000, I would have got my kid one, and a second one for myself.

In other words, you get more young ones, medium age ones, old ones, you name it--if they can afford it.

The trick is to mostly negate the money with appropriate rules. That way you get not only the rich Dads/guys, but the almost rich, maybe even lower on the scale, along with them to fill the field.

Initial investment, tires, tow vehicle, race gas, bent parts... It would be plenty expensive if the tracks gave out engines.

Another rediculous extreme, but it is really quite simple. Cut costs, get mo cars.

Here is what I do not understand, We are different from up north, back home we only get about 4 maybe 5 months to race so yes there is weekly racing, but down here we race all year, why do the promoters race every saturday night and they try to run either the supers, mods or trucks. I love to race but there has to be some downtime somewhere.

A perfect example was the last 2 races of the triple crown at desoto, it has been rescheduled but.... the next race would have been the week before the gov cup and the last race would have been the week before christmas. Could you imagine telling your kids that they did not get christmas gifts because daddy needed tires?

[oslm6]

One track I visited this year started a new entry class with 4 cylinders and the track has put together several cars that people can rent and race for a night of racing. The track also a fast version of the same 4 cylinders for more experienced drivers. Seems to work and draws new drivers into the sport. Usually, they put on a pretty good show for the fans too.

[OldSchool+]

Ex,

Wellllll, no one has to race at every event.

Racing is compelling, some might argue addictive, but still, it shouldn't be the track's responsibility to close so the racers can participate in, y'know, life outside of racing...

That said, let's say 10-20% of the active racers have school plays to go, motors to rebuild, turkeys to carve, or similar.

Still simple math. The bigger the pool of available cars, the less noticeable a few taking the night off for various reasons is.

[run4fun]

Old School, eloquently spoken as usual...lol, you know my opinion on this stuff and I think its finally starting to show its ugly head. I want to see what track owner has the fortitude to step up and take the lead on this, or they might want to find a good relator in the not so distance future...back when I ran the Florida Pro Series with Bert at the helm we always had a good show. All the tracks have adopted this NASCAR SLM perception and its killed the sport and the local tracks...You can build motors that last and are competitive for $5K. Now you have crankshafts that cost $3,000.00, adjustable shocks costing $1200.00 a piece, traction control devices, etc.....it's sick and ridiculous no doubt, kills the middle class racer...Open Wheels are just as bad...now we have E-mods, are you kidding? Time to go back to a simple late model division....sportsman's today, are what late models were back then, they just didn't have those funky offset bodies the sportsman have today...not a big fan of those style bodies, but that's JMO.

[exnyer]

Ex,

Wellllll, no one has to race at every event.

Racing is compelling, some might argue addictive, but still, it shouldn't be the track's responsibility to close so the racers can participate in, y'know, life outside of racing...

That said, let's say 10-20% of the active racers have school plays to go, motors to rebuild, turkeys to carve, or similar.

Still simple math. The bigger the pool of available cars, the less noticeable a few taking the night off for various reasons is.

OS, You know as well as I do, if a track is open we are going to try to run it.

I did not say for the tracks to close, but let me tell you this, tracks should close during the summer heavy rain months, to sit at the track and watch it flood is not fun.

Tracks have become accustomed to run the supers almost every week of the month, let me ask you this, who has that type of money anymore?

[run4fun]

Exnyer, it's been a problem for awhile. I used to have a SLM, and roller as back-up and a bare chassis, and two engines mounted in cradles ready to go. Then they started allowing $20-$30K engines to cripple the sport. I sold everything and bought two open wheels. Then that division started with the same BS. It is hitting the Sportsman's now and the Mod Minis. Track Owners do not care...they think the rich guys are the ones that float this sport locally...sorry but me being a business owner and my ignorance of having the ability to complete a 4-year degree in Business tells me TRACK OWNERS HAVE IT ALL WRONG and they think we are just dumb race car drivers...car counts are shrinking because of the costs associated with these rich guy engine and body rules...Track Owners think ALL the SLM are just going to pour into their tracks because of high purses, how is that working out? All track rules are geared to let cars run interchangeably at essentially all florida tracks. Great idea, but it has killed car counts at tracks. I think everybody liked the concept, but its not working. So when you pair the COST to field a car (along with all other expenses) and the money needed to remain competitive in your division, the track owners have killed the sport. Middle class fans and drivers are what make the local race tracks thrive...its nothing but class warfare...tracks owners need to work together and drop the standoffish attitudes.

[exnyer]

Exnyer, it's been a problem for awhile. I used to have a SLM, and roller as back-up and a bare chassis, and two engines mounted in cradles ready to go. Then they started allowing $20-$30K engines to cripple the sport. I sold everything and bought two open wheels. Then that division started with the same BS. It is hitting the Sportsman's now and the Mod Minis. Track Owners do not care...they think the rich guys are the ones that float this sport locally...sorry but me being a business owner and my ignorance of having the ability to complete a 4-year degree in Business tells me TRACK OWNERS HAVE IT ALL WRONG and they think we are just dumb race car drivers...car counts are shrinking because of the costs associated with these rich guy engine and body rules...Track Owners think ALL the SLM are just going to pour into their tracks because of high purses, how is that working out? All track rules are geared to let cars run interchangeably at essentially all florida tracks. Great idea, but it has killed car counts at tracks. I think everybody liked the concept, but its not working. So when you pair the COST to field a car (along with all other expenses) and the money needed to remain competitive in your division, the track owners have killed the sport. Middle class fans and drivers are what make the local race tracks thrive...its nothing but class warfare...tracks owners need to work together and drop the standoffish attitudes.

I can sum my response up in one word.......

Exactly!