#7 Modified Front End is it legal

[Modowner]

The front end of the #7 Modified is fabricated using the geometry from a Camaro from clip and the Lower Control Arms. The rules state no camaro frames. There must be a reason this rule is in affect ( not a full frame just a clip )

The car is in its own as far as wins since this front clip has been installed and we have a number of big money races coming up, let us know whether or not we can have the same front clip put on our car or add weight to the 7 to balance the feild.

This is directed at the tech men from Showtime, NSS, Desoto, Pensacola, Citrus and Auburndale

[x90 John Sarppraicone]

Modowner
You need to call each track owner and have them have there teck man call you back asap because I lot of them will not ans on here,if they paid the 7 all of these times I would guess its ok, don't assume this on your own have them fax you in writing what the rule is for everyone, ask about the extra weight that may have to or not have to carry,all the cars should have to weight the same no matter what just my thoughts.Good question I hope this helps you get ans,good luck where ever you race.

[BallewM]

It is legal. Showtime and Citrus have the same rules and I'm sure all tracks follow the same for modified. Rule says fabricated clip is allowed with 25lbs added in front of flywheel.

[50racer]

Just to make this clear, if that is the case there are no rules for fab clips other than 25 lbs. Looks to me we need to change and build a fab clip. It will open this up anything goes.

[BallewM]

Showtime Speedway 2015 Open-Wheel Modified



If these rules do not say you can do it then don’t do it! Be sure to check the general rules. All interpretations by the track are final. You are responsible to know the track’s position on all rules. IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE!

Car/Frame:

Cars must weigh 7 lbs per cubic inch minus burn off tolerance at the end of the race minimum weight 2,500 lbs. 56% Max Left side. No burn off after race. Aluminum heads must move 50 lbs. of lead in front of flywheel. Battery cannot be used as ballast. NO TOLERANCE.

1. Factory production complete full 1950 or newer parallel American passenger car frames only.

a. May run fabricated front clip but must add 25 lbs. of lead in front of flywheel.

[8modified]

Ok that said were are the spec for the fabricated clip other wise anything goes, if If there was one company making all the clips the same and you had to use a standard lower control arms then it can not be screwed with. I just see this as a open ended all kind of problem for the tech guys. Can any one say if the Camaro lower control arm is legal or do we have to run the same lower control arm that is on the original factory piece

[run4fun]

Yep, that's the problem with the Mod class, nothing but an open wheeled late model, that's why I ditched mine. It's nothing but a "run what you brung class" any more. Not competitive anymore, the rich guys are the ones that win. The track owners just don't get it. They act like they can just open up all the rules for the rich guys. Here's the facts....the middle class is what makes up a majority of cars that show up, and the tracks are killing them. My late model totaled about $25,000 when all was said and done, it just isn't worth it...look at it this way...A race-ready NASCAR ride costs about $100,000 on average, the average ticket a fan pays to go see the race is about $175.00...the payout on a NASCAR win is....well, incredible. Now we middle-class spend $25,000 on a racecar, 99% with no "true" sponsorship, fans pay $10-$15 to get in, we pay $50, and the payout is....well, pathetic. What whooping $600 to put a $25,000 car on the track, plus all the other uncovered expenses such as tire, gas, etc....

TRACK OWNERS ARE DOING THIS ALL WRONG...they aren't doing the math for the drivers (which includes the rules, because rules cost drivers more money to stay competitive). They are doing the math for their PROFIT...they could careless what the drivers think...to bad, so sad...TRACK OWNERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE DRIVERS...I have heard it myself behind closed doors, in meetings and that is the cold hard fact. All they care about is butts in the seats, and a field of cars, that equals $$$$$...the problem is NONE OF THEM ARE GETTING THAT..it's the same old crap week after week, and the same guys winning who have the cash to exploit the division rules. The tech peple do not do crap about it. If you piss the loyal drivers off that show up week after week to give you your 5-7 car count per division, sooner or later you will be in the same position Three Palms is in, so the Tech guys do not do crap...it's nothing but an illusion....hmmmm definition of insanity here...track owners across the country are killing this sport, it's that easy. The MODIFIEDS are a prime example of that...

[James Wright III]

That is not some new found technology. The same clip has been on several open wheel modifiers for at least the last 5-6 years.

[bruce93]

Mod clip

I agree with you all about the clip issue but y r u worried about the control arms they are the same for all montes chevelles Pontiacs olds Camaro from 1973 to 1977 on the Camaro its 1973 to 1981 the clip is the problem the geometry is better on the Camaro and at nss it is up to tech if a fab clip is legal I don't no what the wait penalty is thow I think there it's more than 25 pounds

[BallewM]

Ok that said were are the spec for the fabricated clip other wise anything goes, if If there was one company making all the clips the same and you had to use a standard lower control arms then it can not be screwed with. I just see this as a open ended all kind of problem for the tech guys. Can any one say if the Camaro lower control arm is legal or do we have to run the same lower control arm that is on the original factory piece

5. Front suspension and steering will not be altered and will be O.E.M. Heim Joint on end of steering optional for bump steering. Stock passenger car spindles only. No fabricated spindles. Bottom A frames cannot be altered or moved.

By this if you have a stock clip then you'd have to run a stock control arm that can bolt up in factory locations.

[ocalasp76]

Yep, that's the problem with the Mod class, nothing but an open wheeled late model, that's why I ditched mine. It's nothing but a "run what you brung class" any more. Not competitive anymore, the rich guys are the ones that win. The track owners just don't get it. They act like they can just open up all the rules for the rich guys. Here's the facts....the middle class is what makes up a majority of cars that show up, and the tracks are killing them. My late model totaled about $25,000 when all was said and done, it just isn't worth it...look at it this way...A race-ready NASCAR ride costs about $100,000 on average, the average ticket a fan pays to go see the race is about $175.00...the payout on a NASCAR win is....well, incredible. Now we middle-class spend $25,000 on a racecar, 99% with no "true" sponsorship, fans pay $10-$15 to get in, we pay $50, and the payout is....well, pathetic. What whooping $600 to put a $25,000 car on the track, plus all the other uncovered expenses such as tire, gas, etc....

TRACK OWNERS ARE DOING THIS ALL WRONG...they aren't doing the math for the drivers (which includes the rules, because rules cost drivers more money to stay competitive). They are doing the math for their PROFIT...they could careless what the drivers think...to bad, so sad...TRACK OWNERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE DRIVERS...I have heard it myself behind closed doors, in meetings and that is the cold hard fact. All they care about is butts in the seats, and a field of cars, that equals $$$$$...the problem is NONE OF THEM ARE GETTING THAT..it's the same old crap week after week, and the same guys winning who have the cash to exploit the division rules. The tech peple do not do crap about it. If you piss the loyal drivers off that show up week after week to give you your 5-7 car count per division, sooner or later you will be in the same position Three Palms is in, so the Tech guys do not do crap...it's nothing but an illusion....hmmmm definition of insanity here...track owners across the country are killing this sport, it's that easy. The MODIFIEDS are a prime example of that...

Well said, and a good example is the e-mod class dropped last year by NSS. An affordable growing class for those who were on a limited budget as far as motors go. Now the open mod has the same top finishers and the rest of us have decided to race elsewhere where motor is not needed for a smaller track.
Nuff said.
-JIM-

[OWM94]

It is legal. Showtime and Citrus have the same rules and I'm sure all tracks follow the same for modified. Rule says fabricated clip is allowed with 25lbs added in front of flywheel.

It's legal to have a tube clip. It is NOT legal to alter the location of the lower a frames. The a frame mounts on the tube clips are slotted (5 holes I believe). The stock location is the middle hole. An easy way to check is to build a jig off a stock clip then check it to the location on the tube clip cars. You can run the a frames in the bottom slot and lower the roll center drastically. You can check this with the naked eye. But tech men around here just like to read scales and check ride heights (nothing that requires them putting their head lower than their ass), also look at the tie rod angles, look at the angle on a stick clip car, then look how much closer to level they are on a tube clip car the doesn't have the lowers in the right place. If the tracks continue to let this go they are going to ruin one of the strongest classes in Florida.

[OWM94]

Also tracks need to start checking for drop spindles

[50racer]

The 7 car has a Port City clip from what I was told, that fine just right the spec so you run this clip so they are all the same.

[amfchassis]

the clip on the seven was bought from amf chassis it is our design built for us by port city the geometry is based on a 1977 nova front end stop whining and start working on your cars