Question for Modified Mini Stock Drivers/Owners

[run4fun]

Bowlegs...Yes, they are essentially 4-cyl late models.

[run4fun]

TZRACER...I totally agree. Ive ran late models and modifieds. These cars are very expensive when it come to the motor. That's why I'm trying to get feed back from other drivers on this...I would like to see about changing the engines to something affordable and make durability a priority. Need feedback though.

[run4fun]

Thanks RocketD! I would love to put something together affordable. I feel car count and appearance of cars are paramount. It's the cost of the engines driving the fields to be smaller and smaller. They are more expensive to build than the crate engines used in other divisions.

[Boneman]

There is an inexpensive fix to this cool class. I didn't want to bash mod-minis, after all I spent a lot of seasons in them. Although the chassis and bodies are really cool, the engines are too old and too expensive. If anyone is looking ahead and running something other than a 2300 Ford, then this is not directed at you. However, a large percentage of this class still uses these increasingly rare, high compression, short lived engines. I know for a fact that the weekly engine costs for my mod minis are much higher than for my V8 sprinter (although the initial cost of a sprint engine is higher).

How about this: junkyards everywhere are choked with high powered, readily available and inexpensive V6 engines. Open the class to use them. Sure, the devil is in the details, but anything is better than a shrinking group of cars that all sound the same.

[run4fun]

Boneman....I ABSOLUTELY love the idea of the V-6!! It is very do able...I have been researching the V6 option with utilizing a different carb being on 13x8 wheels...exactly as you point out, its all in the details! Thank you!

[Bobby Diehl]

Just keep in mind....

Just keep in mind it took from 1995 till 1998 to build the FASTRUCK Series from 1 truck to 20 trucks for a Series.... You would need to a gradual change to the v6's. Everyone that has a drive train have spent all their money to get where they are. Weight is the common denominator. When we started the zz4 program we tested and tested to find a equal as possible answer to the transition. You don't want to through out the baby with the bath water. Bring your ideas and lets meet and put together a plan. There is about 50 cars out there and they all have 4 cylinders now. So it's very important not to make a breakup in the division (there are enough classes racing now). Just my thoughts.

[Lucky6]

Mod Mini's

run4fun, Boneman, as much as I agree with the cost of the motors in this class, making changes can also have a devastating effect. In 2005 I raced in a class that was literally the talk of the state for the number of cars we ran every week 24 to 28. Do to people wanting to make changes to the cars to add racing springs, bigger cams, down bars, this class in less than two years went to 6 cars every week. No one could afford to make all the changes that was needed to be competitive. Class today still only runs no more than 8 to 10 cars. Bombers became Pure stocks over night. This Mod Mini class is just starting to gain speed in a come back. Becarefull what you ask for it may be a class killer.

[run4fun]

Lucky6, yes you are correct in being careful what you wish for. My vision is to help the division increase, no doubt. I think it's great that we generate ideas from others and come up with a game plan. And as Boneman mentioned with changes...you have to work things out. The concept of a cheaper engine to level the playing field is just one idea.

Changing the engine rule to a V6 brings alot a variables to the table (ie additional weight, possibly larger tires, changes in hubs, carbs, etc..). In theory, an engine change to V6's may be a cheaper engine, but it may also impact numerous things and actually counter the idea and actually increase costs. So I'm with you. I started looking at the V6's when the Goody's DASH series ran them.

The 2.3's are reliable, and plentiful, so I'm not worried about them going away or being available for racing. I would like to see changes to help the racers field their cars more consistently by decreasing engine costs.

Currently, it's no different than the late models and owm's, the guys with the most money run up front...lol. As a fan, there is nothing worse than a boring race watching one car smoke the field. It maybe be fun for the driver who's winning, but it makes for a horrible show for the fans and discourages drivers from wanting to continue week after week because they know they can't compete, and the result is they park the car or sell it and the field decreases.

Leveling the playing field and having cars run an across-the-board engine set-up puts everything back on the driver and chassis set-up. In example, why do we need to spend 900.00 on a flywheel-clutch assembly? Why 2,000 to have the heads and block done at a machine shop, that doesn't include assembly? Why 600.00 for 4 pistons w/rings. Why 450.00 for 5.7 rods, why 400.00 for a camshaft? Why 400.00 for pulleys? ITS ALL DONE FOR ACCELERATION AND DECELERATION....And once those components blow your in the hole again, minus the pulleys.

The class NEEDS to be affordable in order to increase car count, because the payouts certainly do not even help you breakeven by the time you pay for fuel, tires, pit help, etc...you know the deal. But what can we do to create a win-win situation.

80-90% of the racing show are hard working people just trying to get their car to the track and do not have thousands to drop on a motor if something detonates. My vision is to tune these motor rules back towards stock components with rules to permit reinforcement of the drivetrain for stability and a little bit of camshaft play with maximum lift rules to help maintain a hydraulic lifter in lieu of the need to convert to solid, just as examples.

Why not transition to larger tires. This will permit drivers to maintain speed throughout the corners and into the straight-away. This will create a great show and affordability.

Again, my goal is to (1) "decrease" costs for drivers engines, (2) "increase" car counts which in-turn increases payouts, put on a great show for fans and promoters so they WANT to have the division back (that puts fans in the seats), (3) have a "respectable division regional tour", and (4) make racing "fun and competitive" again for everyone involved and (5) discard the same old-same old weekend shows and turn-it up a notch.

Thanks for the feedback!!!!!

[OldSchool+]

I never understood why folks spend so much money when they could have a hobby stock or sportsman, maybe even a decent modified for the same coin...

[run4fun]

OldSchool, I understand you're point...but again, many people love the smaller cars and it's appealing to them, to each his own. I will say that cars in production are certainly not getting any bigger, and stock cars are no longer stock. Eventually every division will need to convert away from OEM stock front ends and body panels, they will be a thing of the past. So there needs to be a transition process. Second, it's about fun, affordability and longevity. When you go to some tracks and see the cars you see everything from a 1970 monte carlo to a 1980's metric monte carlo. Some have stock panels some have aftermarket. Same thing with the sportsman, some have stock bodies, some have fabricated bodies, some have square bodies, etc.., etc... it's a mix-match, nothing is consistent...

I am looking for a level playing field that's affordable with a level playing field, a professional appearance and that IS COMPETITIVE FOR ALL INVOLVED....the same old same old, he who has the most money wins concept is going to kill local short tracks and you can have 5 or 6 cars show up every week in each class and do the same ol' routine...I'd rather have 20 to 30 show up each time and have some great fun and not break the bank....and it can be done....we need new vision....insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[OldSchool+]

Outlaw Mini Sportsman?

run4fun.

Yep. Always an illusion that one's opinion (in this case, mine), is the objective truth.

I like the sound and the torque of a V8, but others are entitled to their own opinion and choice of race car, for sure.

Here is a thought: Outlaw Mini Sportsman (I just made it up, of course).

Rule suggestions:

Tube Frames okay, RWD mandantory.

Close to stock junkyard motors as Bonez has suggested. Rules to keep 'em cheap (though I don't know how...).

Significant modified style engine setback allowed.

Cheap tires.

Unlimited bodies.

Make minimum weights heavy enough to keep 'em safe, and keep 'em cheap.

Essentially, four or six cylinder sportsman cars.

[OldSchool+]

ps--Regardless of all other factors, cubic dollars usually prevail.

[run4fun]

OldSchool EXCELLENT ideas!! And Much agreed...

The rules as they are now essentially create an unlimited engine in the class.

In example, reconditioned stock head ready to go $200.00, hyper pistons $100, Stock Rods with ARP bolts 200.00...etc...you know the drill...I've ran hobby stocks to late models, so I've seen the spectrum in costs (LOL)...BUT the costs for mod mini's are out-of-control for week to week racers..

CURRENTLY a decent engine is $6000-$7000....not good. I could build 4 engines ready to go on engine stands, that are reliable, versus one engine and if it blows I'm done...and that's one less car for the year or more.

If you do that with 20-30 racers, you'll have one heck of a show...

In fact...one year, I think 1998, I was at New Smyrna Speedway. One class scheduled was the MINICUP cars...I chuckled to be honest. I wasn't sure what was going to happen. And of course you had the regulars... 8-Bombers, 9-Super Stocks, 7-Open Wheeled, 9 Mini Stocks, and 6 Late Models....

Then they brought out the MINICUPS...30 cars!!!! I said "I cant believe this". BUT THE BIGGEST IMPACT WAS THE FANS RESPONSE....all through the night was the norm as a fan....sit, watch, and wait for the show to be done....When the MINICUP's hit the track and got up to speed after the 1st LAP, it was ALL slicing, dicing, nose to tail and drafting!!! As the last two laps approached not a single person was sitting...fans where on their feet to watch the checkered flag...Those are the races talked about and remembered for a long time by fans and drivers alike. Needless to say I walked away impressed with the MINICUPS that night, and still remember it 17 years later...lol

[run4fun]

The point being, the MINICUPS put on a show! It was FUN, COMPETITIVE & A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, not he who has the most money wins....

[Boneman]

I should have been more clear....
I did not suggest replacing 2300 Fords, but instead allowing other modern engines to be phased in.

Why choose mini stocks? I did it because I am hopelessly practical on most things. At the time, I had a 2 car garage, a 1/2 ton truck and a small open trailer. I needed a racecar that FIT in those restrictions. If I tried to park a sportsman, or worse a dirt late model in my garage, there would be 3 feet of bodywork sticking out and blocking the sidewalk.