I think this is a fair comparison

[OldSchool+]

Somebody could get a good deal on sponsoring a turn two light bulb.

"Annnnnnnd the field is coming out of two heading for the green flag, passing under that great 'Light up your night, Bithlo' lightbulb by Bob's Sunoco. Now, back to the racing action!"

JC--I believe Matt Albee is left-leaning regarding social issues (correct me if I am wrong, Matt).
These folks tend to deal in the world of "how great it would be, if...". As in, "how great it would be to take care of the poor of other countries" and "how great it would be if the govt took care of our healthcare".

Reality is what they make it and not what the cold facts indicate, although they will suggest that the facts support their positions.

That is not to slam Matt. He is entitled to look at life any way he chooses. In years past, folks like that were called "dreamers".

[JC26]

I've kind of picked up on that from him, OldSchool.

I would go out on a limb and guess he's the type that does no wrong and everyone else gets the blame when he screws up. Just like it's everyone else's fault on why racing should be better than it is. If he spent half as much effort into doing all the things he says would make racing better, as he does bitching and moaning on here, then I'd respect his opinion a little more.

Hell, Katlizy and me have had it out on here over the Butler/Augilar fued, but I can honestly say, I respect the attempt she has made to get the word out about OSW. Now THAT is a true and dedicated fan.

[OldSchool+]

Agreed, Kat is my favorite feline, and has gone the extra 4 quarter miles...

[kendo]

Up to the 1940's or so we were a largly agrarian society and things were largely mechanical. Working on things like tractors and pumps and whatnot was a necessity.

But those days are gone, and largely left with the advent of the baby boom generation--ie...US.

Meanwhile, mechanical things (including cars) became electronic and by and large cannot be tinkered with by an interested 13 year old.

Meanwhile, Mom trundled them off to the soccer games to bounce balls off their haids. Dad? Well, we are not sure where he is, Mom got rid of him (another almost unheard of deal through most of the 60s).

And here we are.

Saw my 1st modified race in 1968,fearless war vets barrel rolling down the front stretch and some flipping out of the park.6-8000 fans in the stands weekly to watching their heros.By 1979 they were all about done racing,and the high dollar Troyer cars started showing up at the tracks,,,That is when short track racing changed forever.

[OldSchool+]

Kendo,

Indeed. Down south it was 32 chevvies and so forth with transverse leafs in front that eventually move up from 6 cylinders to V8s--and then they were promptly replaced by sprint cars with bobbed tails and coil-overs labelled "modifieds". Until, of course, they priced themselves right out of existance for decades until the IMSA-type stock clip modifieds came along (and thank goodness for them!).

Most recently, I would suggest the changing inside wheelbase has again "changed (dirt) short track racing forever"--and, as usual, not for the better.

[luke81]

Okay guys, i'm going to slow this way down for you, just like your teachers always had to.
We're not comparing ticket sales.
We're not comparing popularity.
We're not really comparing stadiums.
We're not comparing tv audience or the lack of.
Okay, you guys following this so far?
What this entire thread is about........ is track owners letting their facilities crumble, payouts that haven't increased in 15 years, racers finally getting frustrated enough to leave racing completely, fans no longer having a show to watch and leaving completely, and tracks closing up.
Now stop and count to 10. Remember to breath.
Still with me? Good!
All that was needed over the years was for track owners to stop putting on their races almost exclusively on the backs of the racers. Stopping making fans and racers pay the bills when it was obvious from NASCAR that sponsors could be the secret to growing short track racing. Track owners have done little to nothing over the years to bring in sponsors. They just dream up new classes to increase the back gate money. They run 10 classes of cars per night, 5 cars per class because they don't have anything else to work with. They always have the same excuse," it takes money to run a race track " And the only place they ever seem to think of for more money is gouging the racers.
We're almost finished.
The excuse has always been that the sponsors just aren't out there, so they have to settle for a local car dealer and a race tire company and a race gas company....and that's about it.
And now a brand new soccer team has proven that there are many untapped potential sponsors out there for a game that's brand new to Orlando, and one that's not even as popular as auto racing in America. Tracks can't ask for the same sponsor money as a pro soccer team, but those very same companies sponsor many other smaller events for less than a pro soccer team get. So why haven't the tracks singed them up?
Okay, nap time.

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think you troll for the sake of trolling. You clearly know less than my cat about race cars, marketing, or anything of the sort. In some of your posts everything NASCAR does is wrong, yet now in this post they're the ones people should learn from?
I own a business so I have a fairly solid grasp of marketing, and I also own a race car so I understand how to waste marketing dollars on racing too.

[fred23]

Except for tax purposes....lol

[Tim]

I'm with JC26. Matt, rather than picking up the keyboard, pick up the phone and call a track owner. Commenting on a message board that everyone (most importantly you) knows a track owner will not respond on is just plain chicken shit. Let us know if you find an owner that won't give you their time. If your that smart they may even give you a job!

[Matt Albee]

Somebody could get a good deal on sponsoring a turn two light bulb.

"Annnnnnnd the field is coming out of two heading for the green flag, passing under that great 'Light up your night, Bithlo' lightbulb by Bob's Sunoco. Now, back to the racing action!"

JC--I believe Matt Albee is left-leaning regarding social issues (correct me if I am wrong, Matt).
These folks tend to deal in the world of "how great it would be, if...". As in, "how great it would be to take care of the poor of other countries" and "how great it would be if the govt took care of our healthcare".

Reality is what they make it and not what the cold facts indicate, although they will suggest that the facts support their positions.

That is not to slam Matt. He is entitled to look at life any way he chooses. In years past, folks like that were called "dreamers".

I have to agree with you, there's nothing more annoying than people who think the world can be better.
I've voted for members of both major parties, so i'm not going to fit into your mold i'm afraid. Interesting exercise though, splitting race fans into their respective political parties. It would be interesting to find out if the majority of race fans are " dreamers " , or " bitter old white guys ".

[OldSchool+]

Matt,

Just an observation, not a condemnation. Nor meant to be divisive.

Certainly not meant to be offensive. While I am thinking about it, if anyone ever feels slighted send me a pm, nothing is worth feeling bad about.

Remember, it takes a village to run a racetrack.

That and a guy with deeeeeeeep pockets!

[Matt Albee]

I'm with JC26. Matt, rather than picking up the keyboard, pick up the phone and call a track owner. Commenting on a message board that everyone (most importantly you) knows a track owner will not respond on is just plain chicken shit. Let us know if you find an owner that won't give you their time. If your that smart they may even give you a job!

You'd have better luck getting Elvis on the phone than a race track owner. A recorded message maybe, in some cases a secretary if it's the right time of day and right day of the week. But having a conversation with a track owner is pretty unlikely. And what exactly would you like me to tell the track owner? That he needs to pay bigger purses? That he needs to advertise his races in new and effective ways? That he needs to bring in sponsors to help pay the bills and increase the purse? That he needs to quit forcing the racers to buy track tires and gas while BSing them that it's paying into their points fund? That he needs to dig into his own pocket if needed and paint the damn walls, paint the restrooms, fix the PA system, fix the scoreboard, and give the racers a decent pit area without charging them for slabs? You mean i should tell them that.
If there's a track owner dumb enough not to know all of that already, i'd sure be wasting both our time by trying to explain it to him.
Since you brought it up though, be sure to tell any track owner you might run into that this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of his track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn't care less what the fans and racers think.

[Matt Albee]

Matt,

Just an observation, not a condemnation. Nor meant to be divisive.

Certainly not meant to be offensive. While I am thinking about it, if anyone ever feels slighted send me a pm, nothing is worth feeling bad about.

Remember, it takes a village to run a racetrack.

That and a guy with deeeeeeeep pockets!

Not taken as a condemnation, not taken as anything more than a comment.

[OldSchool+]

"[One would think that] this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of [an owner or promoter's] track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn't care less what the fans and racers think."--Matt A

Perhaps it could have a positive effect. Of course, there are those that say track owners are driven to close tracks due to negative things said on the boards.

Personally, I agree with the "couldn't care less" part. My belief is that they are not insensitive, just driven in one direction by their own vision.

[Tim]

You'd have better luck getting Elvis on the phone than a race track owner. A recorded message maybe, in some cases a secretary if it's the right time of day and right day of the week. But having a conversation with a track owner is pretty unlikely. And what exactly would you like me to tell the track owner? That he needs to pay bigger purses? That he needs to advertise his races in new and effective ways? That he needs to bring in sponsors to help pay the bills and increase the purse? That he needs to quit forcing the racers to buy track tires and gas while BSing them that it's paying into their points fund? That he needs to dig into his own pocket if needed and paint the damn walls, paint the restrooms, fix the PA system, fix the scoreboard, and give the racers a decent pit area without charging them for slabs? You mean i should tell them that.
If there's a track owner dumb enough not to know all of that already, i'd sure be wasting both our time by trying to explain it to him.
Since you brought it up though, be sure to tell any track owner you might run into that this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of his track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn't care less what the fans and racers think.

Your opening statement says it all. You assume you can't talk to a track owner. You never tried. You assume to know everything tracks should be doing. Yet you've never tried that either.

If you want something to talk to a track owner about, talk about how to put fans in the stands. If you can help them figure that out, all your other dreams of prospering short tracks could be possible.

HOWEVER!!!

Knowing as much as you do, you obviously know nothing about racing history other than the NASCAR years. In the beginning, racetracks were built to give the (already existing) racers a place to race among other reasons. Everything that happened after was each track owners preference. It was, is and always will be a hobby for the racers and the owners. They can play as much and as hard as they want to when they want to. And if they choose to keep their car or track parked, that is their hobby, NOT their business. You are convinced short track racing is about money. It has NEVER been about money to real racers and track owners. They race because they love it, not because they can make a ton of money doing it. There is already a different part of their life, (this is going to hurt a little) one you don't know about, that pays their living expenses and provides their quality of life. The smart ones keep them seperate and won't leverage one against the other. Unfortunately we see too many that have.

[Matt Albee]

Geez Tim, this entire thread has been about putting fans in the stands. Your reading skills could use a lift. I'll recap the conversation for you.
There are no fans in the stands because there's nothing to see. There are no fans in the stands because many tracks are in such poor shape they're on the verge of being condemned. They got that way because many track owners were too near sighted to invest in the infrastructure. As the tracks crumbled, the owners did what in their mind was the logical thing, and increased the back gate prices, started charging for places to park your race car, added fees, forced racers to buy track only products, and upped the front gate prices, concession prices, and cut track staff.
Of course the real answer was to find non racing related sponsors to bring in money. Similar to the opening post concerning the Orlando soccer club. Those guys went out and got sponsors, the very same sponsors available to OSW for the last 20 years. So why do you suppose the soccer club could get sponsorship from T-Mobile, the Orlando Airport, and the City of Orlando, in lees than a year, while OSW couldn't in 20 years? That airport has been there a long time. They were willing to sponsor soccer for probably a million or two. Why weren't they sponsoring OSW for 50,00 per year? T-Mobile has been around for a long time. They wrote a big check to the soccer club, why haven't they ever written a smaller check to OSW?
But most track owners aren't sophisticated enough to know how to bring in sponsors. And in keeping with their short sighted views, they refused to spend the money to hire someone to go out a get sponsors. I know some tracks have marketing people on staff. But most don't.
Fans aren't in the splintery, wobbly grandstands because racers aren't in the muddy pit areas. Quit screwing the racers, bring in sponsors to pay higher purses, and give the fans a nice place to sit. Do that, and the problem is solved. At least do something about both, and the problem is well on the way to being solved.