The Problem with Nascar is too much grip!

[aquarius1234]

They dropped the horsepower(via restrictor plates,etc.), and added grip via spoilers/big tires.

Now if they dropped the tire size, and added horsepower, even lighten the cars, we might have competition like in the 80s, and 90s and such.

So now were left with watching these cowboy cadillacs(3400 lbs wtf), never even break lose.

Well at least we wont have to hear tony stewart complain about driveability issues. Hell at daytona they hardly feather the throttle.

Thank god we still have super late models, modifieds, etc., at desoto, new smyrna, five flags, etc.

Those are the real drivers.

I still remember tony stewart winning a nascar race and then complaining about the tires. Maybe we can make em slot cars, with cruise control for you tony!

comments anyone?

[OldSchool+]

Two Words: Bias Ply

But then, "A little of what we put in every racing tire goes into each tire you buy" would not be "true".

It ain't Brian per se, it is the tires and the big, boring, tracks.

And the RTA doesn't have either one on their list either, I will bet.

That is why short track racing Rules more than it ever did!

[Matt Albee]

" Put em on 8 inch treaded slicks so them big motor cars don't have any advantage'. LOL.

[OldSchool+]

And while we are at it, why do they run rain tires at road courses but not ovals...?

The fans wait hours, sometimes days, and the TV ratings go in the terlet.

As Big Bill once said--"There are two pedals in the car y'know" (paraphrased).

In other words, if dry is "safe" @ 170mph, and wet is @140, if you crash at 141 then it is, as they say, tough beans.

[dd38]

I called into the show on Sirius/xm that comes on 3 to 7 which has Angie Skinner and that arrogant Dave Moody and all he did was blow his mouth off how much money/engineering it would cost re-doing/re-engineering all the suspension. It wasn't like I was saying go to 8" tires and rims, but take a inch or 2 out of the present rims and tires. That guy is so full of himself! You can't tell me that it would be cheaper changing wheels/tires than re-engineering engines. Just like when NAS$AR let Toyleyoder come in they had to open the rule book up for engines. Tell me where you can buy a V-8 pushrod OHV engine in a Toyleyoder production vehicle? I even think FORD doesn't have one anymore(except Diesel's). G.M at least still uses them.

[Winger]

Put them in cars that are in the showrooms. Make the cars fit the templates of their production cars and stop trying to equalize the competition. Make them run a production style and sized engine that is available to the public. Let them modify the engines with limits, but limit cubic inches. Let the manufacturers worry about the aerodynamics. What the public can buy, you can race.

[Phil Jacques]

Don't have to take away tire... Just put some air under those cars again. I bet those cars would really start handling like crap with 3" of ground clearance at all times It would sure show who the real drivers are!

[Frasson118]

Larson, Busch, and Stewart would kill most of the rest of the field.

Loose is fast, and those 3 can run looser than most without crashing.

[egspeedway]

Nascar needs to realize that the rules need to have enough space to let people(crew chiefs etc,) to make a difference and couple it with a race format that Is challenging and exciting as opposed to cookie cutter boredom to create a racing show that is exciting to watch and about real racing. This week Eldora will put on a show such as I envision. It may not be as good as last year but will be better than any show on the cookie cutter tracks.

[Groundpounder]

Put them in cars that are in the showrooms. Make the cars fit the templates of their production cars and stop trying to equalize the competition. Make them run a production style and sized engine that is available to the public. Let them modify the engines with limits, but limit cubic inches. Let the manufacturers worry about the aerodynamics. What the public can buy, you can race.

Oh, so you want front wheel drive street stocks...good one!

[al_tere_go_05]

Im so glad you guys don't run a race track or series.

[OldSchool+]

NASCAR is in a box with the cars.

A very popular opinion is "give them more room to modify the cars", usually tied with "let them run stock bodies and motors". They came from there, and it never worked!--assuming you want close competition--which is the basis (I think) of this thread.

The Kiekaffer Chryslers dominated. Smokey Yunick's Pontiacs dominiated. Richard Petty's Hemi dominated. And the show stank.

And they legislated to no end to either attempt parity or "ban" the hemi, or Yunick, or whatever.

In the early 70s they got the drivetrains in a box and the cars ran closer, but then aero was discovered in the 80s. Bill Elliot's jellybean t-bird was slicker than the block-o-wood monte carlos, and lapped the field under green.

More recently, when anyone finds anything, however minute, they dominate--until the secret is out. Harry Gant and rear camber. Whatever Evernham and Knaus came up with from week to week...and so on and so forth.

The box HAS to have virtually NO wiggle room or someone runs off every single week. Stock body/motor based cars would seriously worsen the situation.

I ask you though--if you are leading and there is a significantly faster car behind you, would you rather be at New Smyrna or Showtime?

And would you rather be on stickers--and you have 2 and he has 4--or both of you on hard tires with 50 laps on them?

[luke81]

NASCAR is in a box with the cars.
A very popular opinion is "give them more room to modify the cars", usually tied with "let them run stock bodies and motors". They came from there, and it never worked!--assuming you want close competition--which is the basis (I think) of this thread.
The Kiekaffer Chryslers dominated. Smokey Yunick's Pontiacs dominiated. Richard Petty's Hemi dominated. And the show stank.
And they legislated to no end to either attempt parity or "ban" the hemi, or Yunick, or whatever.
In the early 70s they got the drivetrains in a box and the cars ran closer, but then aero was discovered in the 80s. Bill Elliot's jellybean t-bird was slicker than the block-o-wood monte carlos, and lapped the field under green.
More recently, when anyone finds anything, however minute, they dominate--until the secret is out. Harry Gant and rear camber. Whatever Evernham and Knaus came up with from week to week...and so on and so forth.
The box HAS to have virtually NO wiggle room or someone runs off every single week. Stock body/motor based cars would seriously worsen the situation.
I ask you though--if you are leading and there is a significantly faster car behind you, would you rather be at New Smyrna or Showtime?
And would you rather be on stickers--and you have 2 and he has 4--or both of you on hard tires with 50 laps on them?

Thats a great point. In the 70's when the cars were still very different it wasn't uncommon for the winner to be multiple laps ahead of second. And it fell off even more back through the field. The tenth place car was often ten laps down to the leader. Just at a quick random look at the 1975 Bristol spring race shows the tenth place car was 44 laps down. Petty won 6 laps ahead of second place. I'm pretty certain nobody wants to go back to that kind of racing.

[Shiloh64]

Why even bother living in the "pretend world" of "STOCK" cars? Today, they're just another form of Indy car, Formula I, or super-mod, with sheet metal. This foolishness with grills that "match" the manufacturers in a joke, even on the super lates. Rules to control costs are fine. and needed, but this out of date concept that these things racing today are somehow "stock cars" that we all identify with is ludicrous.

Sprinters, midgets, modifieds, and super mods are what they are. Full blown race cars, with no pretense at being anything else. Unless we do want to go back to the 50's and 60's, where there was some resemblance to regular street cars (at least in outward appearance) I'd suggest that they move our present "stock" cars in the same direction. Always remembering that speed and safety can always be built in without trying to make it look like the car that grandma uses to pick up groceries.

Shiloh

[OldSchool+]

Shiloh,

Actually, it could be argued that Yunick's second '66 Chevelle was the Daddy of the modern stock car. Ironically it was illegal.

Nonetheless, "stock" based cars were done by the 70's. By then they were purpose built from one end to the other. Maybe the Dodges still had torsion bars in the early 70's but still, the cars were built about like they are today.

The big difference is not that that race cars moved away from the street cars, but that the street cars moved away from being true "musclecars" and became large, plush econoboxes.

So be it. We chose with our buying dollars.

But NASCAR already had a pretty good apple, and they have simply been polishing it ever since.

ps--The reason the "stock" cars have production cues is the usual--money. Winning on Sunday still sells on Monday. Enough to keep the manufacturers throwing mo' money into the sport, anyway.