ATTN: Sportsman, ProTruck, Super Stock and Street Stock Competitors

[kendo]

Kendo I disagree immensely with every bit of this comment.

You are clearly comparing overall car count when you need to be comparing division by division. Any track can claim higher car counts if they run more divisions of racecars in night. On average, Desoto seems to run 7 and New Smyrna runs 5.

I think the reluctance to change tires stems from something else...

So basically you disagree immensely in that you think car counts suck at both tracks ?

Gotcha.

[kendo]

Neither track has an overflowing pit area at the moment. But Desoto has been brought back from the dead very nicely. And it does look like NSS is making ground, they sure seem to be trying. .

NSS has made alot of improvements and is a top notch facility, but they still struggle to attract more racers and fans for their weekly program for whatever reason.

As the city of New Smyrna continues to move west and the property becomes more valuable,unfortunately I see strip malls at those 4 corners within 10 years.

[Phil Jacques]

Things at Desoto don't seem to be broken,so they may be more reluctant to change.On the other hand NSS desperately needs to do something to increase car counts.

So basically you disagree immensely in that you think car counts suck at both tracks ?

Gotcha.

I was reading between the lines because I know what you meant. By saying "Desoto don't seem to be broken" you sound as if you are saying you are okay with the car counts over there and by saying "On the other hand NSS desperately needs to do something to increase car counts" you are saying that their car count is the only one that sucks... In reality, division by division, both tracks are consistent with each other... Hell if you go look at the Orlando Results page, they even have similar car counts. Car counts at ALL Florida tracks is hurting right now... anything under a 15 car per division average is extremely sad. Once in a while you get a lucky night or big $ show where a division may pull 20-25 cars, but on average I am seeing 7-12 cars and it's hard to stomach. The fault does not fall on the drivers to me. They only race when and where they can afford to. I would be more than willing to bet if guys could get more for their money and race more for their money, they would. It's the nature of any racer. We want to race as much as possible but if we can't afford to, the car sits on jack stands. It's as simple as that. This whole thread was about saving drivers money on the biggest thing hurting them right now and giving them an opportunity to run more which would bolster car counts at all tracks with time. Affordability is the biggest killer of racing and many people are too blind and greedy to see that anymore. I personally applaud those tracks that are willing to work with us, but the way Desoto and Hoosier have reacted in my opinion is wrong. Like I said above, I hope they have found the holy grail tire and that Scott and I were wrong about the 800 being the better choice for a tire, but I have personal experience with the Hoosier 800, 700, 790 as well as American Racer 704 and 705 and I will take the 800 all day long for grip and durability.

It's not a knock on you kendo, just pointing out a flaw in your statement.

FL racing has lots of potential. Great tracks, awesome drivers and lots of variety. But to say FL racing is struggling would be an understatement. It definitely IS slowly rebounding though which is great! We just want to help that process. The financial side of the sport is definitely holding some guys back no doubt and a better longer lasting tire no matter what number or maker, will help.

There are many aspects of FL racing that need tweaking to bring it up to par with the rest of the country. I can only compare to what we have here which I know people do not like but truth be told we have plenty of problems much worse than what you guys deal with so consider yourselves lucky. At least you have tracks that are open minded, willing to try things etc. That said, a huge benefit would be for all the tracks to cooperate and sit down with drivers more often to find out what they could do to help them. Remember, it's hurting them too not having cars in the pits and fans in the stands... not just us.

[kendo]

It's not a knock on you kendo, just pointing out a flaw in your statement.

.

My statement was based on the fact that it is their 1st year under new management and no doubt appear to be headed in the right direction...Change may,or may not be a good thing for them at this early juncture.

On the other hand,NSS has made many changes and cant seem to break through that 35-45 car ceiling on a consistant basis,,,for quite a few years now....At this point,they have nothing to loose by making the tire change.

[Phil Jacques]

My statement was based on the fact that it is their 1st year under new management and no doubt appear to be headed in the right direction...Change may,or may not be a good thing for them at this early juncture.

On the other hand,NSS has made many changes and cant seem to break through that 35-45 car ceiling on a consistant basis,,,for quite a few years now....At this point,they have nothing to loose by making the tire change.

They definitely appear to be headed in the right direction. Agree 1000%! I think they may be at the upper limit of car count though based off what we see across the state. If all the tracks see the benefit and can hop on board, it may benefit everyone. If you look at car counts across the state, Coulter Trucks, SLM and PLM all seem to have decent car counts as do bigger OWM and Sportsman shows, but when you get down into the weekly shows and lower divisions, they struggle it seems to get more than 7-12 cars weekly. I think a lot of that has to do with the budget some of those guys are operating on and finding ways to make it more affordable will certainly help more cars show up as well as potentially attract new drivers too.

I do think Desoto could benefit from this as well. Especially if it is something instituted for the 2015 season because everyone will be buying new tires anyway so it won't hurt them. Sure, it may take some money away from Hoosier and the Track in tire sales and I understand that ultimately they need to make more money, but if they are getting more drivers buying tires, more people in the pits, more people in the stands etc because of better and more racers there, the loss has the potential to be minimized. Kind of goes along with the "you have to spend money to make money" thought in terms of it may benefit them to take the hit now and make up for it in the long run. Get what I mean?

Will continue to chat tomorrow. Heading to the shop for the night. Have a good night

[Matt Albee]

Maybe i'm mis-reading this thread, but i'm understanding that there are three tires in question. The one Desoto currently uses, the one that Scott and Phil want to use, and another one that Desoto and Hoosier say is even better than those two. Am i correct?
If so, let's see what this third tire can do. I know that tire construction can be just as valuable as tread compound in making a tire grip. So maybe Hoosier has something else, a third tire. Why doesn't someone with contacts at Desoto/Hoosier pursue this a little bit and not spend so much time obsessing over this 800 tire. If there are in fact three separate tires we're talking about, then someone needs to get their hands on a set of these third tires ( you already have the other two ) and test. If nothing else, test all three on one car during Friday night practice at Desoto.
But if you think changing to a different tire is going to revitalize short track racing in Florida, you're going to be very disappointed. There are many, far more important problems to solve.

[kendo]

I think a lot of that has to do with the budget some of those guys are operating on and finding ways to make it more affordable will certainly help more cars show up as well as potentially attract new drivers too.

I agree,,,as long as I have to bolt on 2-4 new stickers to be competitive,I will drive past the asphalt track and head to the dirt track

[scottgarrity07]

Ok, so I had a long nice conversation with Kim Brown and Robert Hart today and I was also in touch with my friend Critter from Desoto. Here's what's going down. Personally I am very suspect of the guy from Hoosier Tire South. He has been telling Critter all kinds of different things since the "Great Tire Discussion of 2014" began. After a lot of planning he has changed courses more times than a fat guy at Golden Corral. He also has been feeding Critter some information that upon further investigation is not true. This stuff makes Critter look bad when indeed Critter was the first one to step forward to look at the 800. Critter is one of the heros here, not the villain. Hoosier South promised and promised and delivered nothing. Well now the gig is up for Hoosier South. Critter wants to test this new tire Hoosier is proposing AND he has insisted that the 800 be tested alongside it. New Smyrna has also been promised by Hoosier South to get a tire test. At this point I really don't trust Hoosier South to follow through so me, Patrick and NSS are going to hold their feet to the fire by testing the Hoosier 800s that I have, on our own. Robert Hart told me today that he is committed to finding a tire that will last a lot longer and doesn't care if that means losing money on tire sales. So we are going to throw the kitchen sink at this deal and objectively come up with a tire that lasts and more importantly is safe. The 800 and the new tire will be tested at Desoto AND New Smyrna. A big thank you to Robert Hart, Kim Brown and Critter for pushing for what is right. AND a big thank you to Butch Pierce and Chad Pierce for clearing up what testing had indeed occurred in the past. The guy from Hoosier South was trying to bullshit everyone about the 800 being tested in Florida, when it had not. In the end both the 800 and the new tire will be tested and we will get the tire that we truly need. First up will be Patrick testing a two race old set of 800s against the regular Sportsman field (+ me!) on the current tire on September 6th at NSS. Fellow competitors are welcome to stop by and take a look at them. After that we will see what Hoosier South actually does.

[Phil Jacques]

Maybe i'm mis-reading this thread, but i'm understanding that there are three tires in question. The one Desoto currently uses, the one that Scott and Phil want to use, and another one that Desoto and Hoosier say is even better than those two. Am i correct?
If so, let's see what this third tire can do. I know that tire construction can be just as valuable as tread compound in making a tire grip. So maybe Hoosier has something else, a third tire. Why doesn't someone with contacts at Desoto/Hoosier pursue this a little bit and not spend so much time obsessing over this 800 tire. If there are in fact three separate tires we're talking about, then someone needs to get their hands on a set of these third tires ( you already have the other two ) and test. If nothing else, test all three on one car during Friday night practice at Desoto.
But if you think changing to a different tire is going to revitalize short track racing in Florida, you're going to be very disappointed. There are many, far more important problems to solve.

Matt, this is all good except the set of 800s we have are already 2 races deep. Would have to get 1 brand new set of 800s to do a from scratch comparison so that all 3 sets could be run the same exact nights. I think that's the only way to truly get an honest start to finish test between the 800 and the proposed tire.

As far as revitalizing, no. That's not the expectation, but it will help guys who only race part time to be able to race more often. There ARE more important problems to solve. But let's tackle the sensible and simplER ones first.

[Phil Jacques]

Ok, so I had a long nice conversation with Kim Brown and Robert Hart today and I was also in touch with my friend Critter from Desoto. Here's what's going down. Personally I am very suspect of the guy from Hoosier Tire South. He has been telling Critter all kinds of different things since the "Great Tire Discussion of 2014" began. After a lot of planning he has changed courses more times than a fat guy at Golden Corral. He also has been feeding Critter some information that upon further investigation is not true. This stuff makes Critter look bad when indeed Critter was the first one to step forward to look at the 800. Critter is one of the heros here, not the villain. Hoosier South promised and promised and delivered nothing. Well now the gig is up for Hoosier South. Critter wants to test this new tire Hoosier is proposing AND he has insisted that the 800 be tested alongside it. New Smyrna has also been promised by Hoosier South to get a tire test. At this point I really don't trust Hoosier South to follow through so me, Patrick and NSS are going to hold their feet to the fire by testing the Hoosier 800s that I have, on our own. Robert Hart told me today that he is committed to finding a tire that will last a lot longer and doesn't care if that means losing money on tire sales. So we are going to throw the kitchen sink at this deal and objectively come up with a tire that lasts and more importantly is safe. The 800 and the new tire will be tested at Desoto AND New Smyrna. A big thank you to Robert Hart, Kim Brown and Critter for pushing for what is right. AND a big thank you to Butch Pierce and Chad Pierce for clearing up what testing had indeed occurred in the past. The guy from Hoosier South was trying to bullshit everyone about the 800 being tested in Florida, when it had not. In the end both the 800 and the new tire will be tested and we will get the tire that we truly need. First up will be Patrick testing a two race old set of 800s against the regular Sportsman field (+ me!) on the current tire on September 6th at NSS. Fellow competitors are welcome to stop by and take a look at them. After that we will see what Hoosier South actually does.

Exactly what I was angry about and thought should happen and glad that it turned out this way. Personally, if they have a better tire than we have, then that's awesome! But it's no reason to shut out the 800 completely. Give it a fair shake and see what happens. Props to Critter, Kim and Robert for doing all of this. I wish I could bring the ole 77 down to join in the fun! I think she would go good with the rest of the Sportsmans even though it's just a G car.

[scottgarrity07]

So, undeterred by Jeff from Hoosier Tire South's inconsistency in following through with a tire test in FL we headed to New Smyrna Speedway yesterday with hopes of testing our Hoosier 800s on Patrick Thomas's #25 Sportsman. Techman Jeff Sutcliffe came by and thoroughly inspected these tires and did a durometer (tire softness) comparison. Jeff gave the 800 the big thumbs up and was interested in seeing the performance and durability of the 800 in competition. Everbody that looked at the 800s couldn't believe that the tires had 2 race nights on them. They looked new. Me and Patrick took our Sportsman cars out on the current tires for a shakedown in practice, then bolted up the 800s on the 25 and waited to go out. Unfortunately Mother Nature refused to cooperate and despite New Smyrna Speedway's usual tenacity in trying to get the show in, it became apparent around 7 p.m. that the rain was not going to relent and reluctantly cancelled the show. Good call because it rained the rest of the night. However we remain committed to test this tire and show it's resiliency, suitability and safety. We will return on 9/27 for the Sportsman portion of the Super Late Model 100 night and test the 800 on Patrick's #25 Sportsman. Stay tuned and we will give a full report on how these tires fared after that event.

[Phil Jacques]

So, undeterred by Jeff from Hoosier Tire South's inconsistency in following through with a tire test in FL we headed to New Smyrna Speedway yesterday with hopes of testing our Hoosier 800s on Patrick Thomas's #25 Sportsman. Techman Jeff Sutcliffe came by and thoroughly inspected these tires and did a durometer (tire softness) comparison. Jeff gave the 800 the big thumbs up and was interested in seeing the performance and durability of the 800 in competition. Everbody that looked at the 800s couldn't believe that the tires had 2 race nights on them. They looked new. Me and Patrick took our Sportsman cars out on the current tires for a shakedown in practice, then bolted up the 800s on the 25 and waited to go out. Unfortunately Mother Nature refused to cooperate and despite New Smyrna Speedway's usual tenacity in trying to get the show in, it became apparent around 7 p.m. that the rain was not going to relent and reluctantly cancelled the show. Good call because it rained the rest of the night. However we remain committed to test this tire and show it's resiliency, suitability and safety. We will return on 9/27 for the Sportsman portion of the Super Late Model 100 night and test the 800 on Patrick's #25 Sportsman. Stay tuned and we will give a full report on how these tires fared after that event.

82 laps to be exact 4 practices and 2 features

[Patrick Thomas 25]

I will take the blame for not getting this tire test started earlier on Saturday. We are trying a couple new very aggressive set ups that have been working pretty well, but require a couple practice's to get ride heights set. We took 2 practices to make shock changes we needed to try, then we decided we were happy with the car so we put the 800's on. That's when the rains came. The tires look great, they are hard, but we will get to see soon enough if they are an alternative to the 650/450 super soft tire we have now.

Patrick Thomas 25

[Phil Jacques]

I will take the blame for not getting this tire test started earlier on Saturday. We are trying a couple new very aggressive set ups that have been working pretty well, but require a couple practice's to get ride heights set. We took 2 practices to make shock changes we needed to try, then we decided we were happy with the car so we put the 800's on. That's when the rains came. The tires look great, they are hard, but we will get to see soon enough if they are an alternative to the 650/450 super soft tire we have now.

Patrick Thomas 25

No need to take any blame Patrick. It happens. Least you got some laps this week... The Speedbowl "rained out" yet it never rained a drop at the shop Saturday and I was there till 1am... In fact, it was one of the nicest days all year haha! Go figure!

[Matt Albee]

Ok, so I had a long nice conversation with Kim Brown and Robert Hart today and I was also in touch with my friend Critter from Desoto. Here's what's going down. Personally I am very suspect of the guy from Hoosier Tire South. He has been telling Critter all kinds of different things since the "Great Tire Discussion of 2014" began. After a lot of planning he has changed courses more times than a fat guy at Golden Corral. He also has been feeding Critter some information that upon further investigation is not true. This stuff makes Critter look bad when indeed Critter was the first one to step forward to look at the 800. Critter is one of the heros here, not the villain. Hoosier South promised and promised and delivered nothing. Well now the gig is up for Hoosier South. Critter wants to test this new tire Hoosier is proposing AND he has insisted that the 800 be tested alongside it. New Smyrna has also been promised by Hoosier South to get a tire test. At this point I really don't trust Hoosier South to follow through so me, Patrick and NSS are going to hold their feet to the fire by testing the Hoosier 800s that I have, on our own. Robert Hart told me today that he is committed to finding a tire that will last a lot longer and doesn't care if that means losing money on tire sales. So we are going to throw the kitchen sink at this deal and objectively come up with a tire that lasts and more importantly is safe. The 800 and the new tire will be tested at Desoto AND New Smyrna. A big thank you to Robert Hart, Kim Brown and Critter for pushing for what is right. AND a big thank you to Butch Pierce and Chad Pierce for clearing up what testing had indeed occurred in the past. The guy from Hoosier South was trying to bullshit everyone about the 800 being tested in Florida, when it had not. In the end both the 800 and the new tire will be tested and we will get the tire that we truly need. First up will be Patrick testing a two race old set of 800s against the regular Sportsman field (+ me!) on the current tire on September 6th at NSS. Fellow competitors are welcome to stop by and take a look at them. After that we will see what Hoosier South actually does.

Nobody ever thought Critter WAS the bad guy. Or Jimmy, or anyone at Desoto Speedway.
Just a thought here, but after trashing Hoosier Southeast, where did you plan to get the tires that win this shootout. I suspect the guys at Hoosier Southeast aren't going to go out of their way to help you, and the shipping from anywhere else is really going to add to the price of each tire.