ATTN: Sportsman, ProTruck, Super Stock and Street Stock Competitors

[PatMennenga16]

I will share my personal racing situation. I would really like to race 2 to 3 times a month, however the tire bill is far to expensive. So instead I sit out for 6 weeks at a time to save money for one race. So the tracks make 10 dollars a tire on me every 6 weeks instead of my pit pass every other week. The fuel cost isn't the issue neither is the travel. Simply put i would race more if the tires were useless after 1 night of racing. I've been doing this for alot of years now, when we had the goodyears and could get 3 nights of good racing that was the way it should be. I've seen guys bolt 4 sticker tires on for a feature that paid 350 to win, and then do it again the next week. This is crazy! If the tracks don't get there arms around this soon there won't much of a show left...

Patrick Mennenga

[OldSchool+]

"FANS- Wouldn't you rather see races on a regular Saturday night at your local track with A LOT more cars in these classes?"--S Garrity

ABSOLUTELY!

Who knows what tires they are running? Who cares?

In fact, racecars that are not "stuck" are much more fun to watch, require more skill, and are conducive to closer competition.

"The Racetrack should not be in the tire business period!"--Kendo

Agree again. It is amazing how their own "rules" (and this is a rule--either pay up or you are not competitive) cut their own throat.

Again, first and foremost the "promoter" needs to have a show for the fans. Then the money will flow. All the other stuff will earn a little right now while killing the golden goose (or Dave Duncan's blue goose, as the case may be...) once and for all.

[scottgarrity07]

Thanks for the insight Patrick. Patrick has been at this game around here as long as anybody. This tire deal keeps him racing only once every 6 weeks. That's the grim reality of what these tires are doing to racing. Everything in his post is true for me also. I try to race around once a month, when I can. I would easily be able to double that if we had a tire that we could get 3 good races out of. The guys who win a lot have told me they hate this tire situation also. Not to out anyone, but Patrick Thomas and Aaron Williamson have expressed their displeasure with these tires and how often you have to buy them to be competitive. Everyone in the pits watches Brandon Morris buy 4 tires every time he races. Brandon probably has the best handling Sportsman in FL, as well as being one smooth driver. What message do you think it sends to everyone when even Brandon needs to buy four tires every race?

[scottgarrity07]

@Old School: I don't think it was anybody's malicious intent to have us required to use these tires that are only competitive for one race. A tire test was done at Citrus for OWM's and, at the time, this combination gave them the grip they needed with all that OWM HP. After racing on them for a while they realized that these tires were only good for one race and a change was made for them to go to the F53 slick that they can get two good races out of. The rest of us were left on this tire and it just remained the status quo. When I talk to different track operators about how this tire is unsuitable for support class racing, they generally just shrug their shoulders and say that every track is on these tires. Now I applaud that a few years back the effort was made by every track to get each respective division on the same tire everywhere. But the short life span of these tires is really now hurting the weekly car counts in all the classes that run them. The switch to the Hoosier 800 will really work best if every track goes to them. But if greed really is a factor, then I say to the victor go the spoils. If some tracks switch and others don't, then those who forgo the greed for a bigger car count deserve to reap the reward. I'm hopeful that there will be some kind of agreement between all the tracks to switch to the same tire together.

Addressing another one of your points, I totally agree that a little less grip will lead to a better show to watch. It tightens up the field and makes for a more exciting show for the fans to watch. It also seperates the men from the boys, since car control becomes more of a factor and the truly great drivers will rise to the top.

[Phil Jacques]

You know, something I neglected to mention before that I just thought of... So far from what I have seen this year, these tires are pretty resilient when impacted and hold air well on severely bent rims and seem to not be as prone to punctures due to sidewall contact as other tires I have seen. As I mentioned before, they run these tires in every division except the Modifieds at Stafford here in CT. Anyone who has ever seen the Dare Stock division or Late Model division at Stafford knows that the racing can be pretty physcial to say it nicely. About 4 weeks ago, we had someone drive right over the left front of our Dare Stock and took out the fender, bumper and hood. There was a pretty decent gash in the tire but it did not fail and we were able to finish the race. We have also seen the bash brothers racing of the Late Models test these tires pretty well recently with a couple pretty good hits taken directly to the wheels/tires. There just do not seem to be as many punctures with these as with previous tires. It may be just simply coincidental, but as a general observation I think there may actually be something to this.

[scottgarrity07]

Wow Phil. That's an interesting observation I hadn't considered. It's a bonus that the Hoosier 800 could actually be a safer tire to run in addition to all the other benefits that these tires can bring. Thanks for the info!

[Patrick Thomas 25]

Here is the bottom line as I see it. The race tracks have been lacking cars for a long while now. Where have the cars gone, what has changed. Since mid year 2008 we have been in a recession according to everybody. Not just in the work force but also in the amount of cars showing up to race. So what has changed?

The Goodyear short track tire program went away in 2008, since then tracks have switched tire brands, some multiple times. What they have come up with for all the classes under the late model and now the modified is a tire that is too soft, too grippy, that will not repeat its performance from one week to the next. I have personally practiced on 2 race old tires at Citrus then bolted on a new set and picked up 3/4 of a second from one practice to the next.

There is no way cars racing for less than $500 per race to win, can justify buying new tires to have a chance to win every week. So what have people started doing, they have chose to miss week after week to save up enough money to buy those new tires, because really who goes to the race track without thinking they can win. I am all for a tire that will last for multiple race, and maybe even get better after the first night the way the old white side wall goodyears used too.

Are the 800 Hoosier tires the answer, who knows, but it can't possibly be any worse. This needs to be tested now, for multiple weeks on a front running car that is willing to do it for the good of the sport. This may be the thing that turns the tide and brings the cars back out to the track. Hopefully a seasoned smart promoter will get together with there local hot shoe and test these things, not on a practice night this needs to be done in race conditions and tracked to see how the tires repeat from one week to the next.

So what savvy promoter is going to take the first step to recovery, and bring the cars back in by giving them a tire that will last long enough they can actually work on the cars handling, instead of bolting on $550.00 worth of tires to make it handle.

I spoke to several long time sportsman racers today and one really good latemodel driver that also runs a sportsman car from time to time, and they all agree. A harder tire will bring them to the track more often to race. Hopefully these people I spoke to today will do as we spoke and also comment, so I don't have to out them on here the way I have been outed, Thanks Scott.

Honestly who cares if this slows the cars down a couple tenths, remember after 2 weeks you will be going just as slow with the tires we have now.

Patrick Thomas 25

[allstarr27]

I think everyone can agree that if there is a tire that can last longer and cost about the same or less than the ones we run now that would be great! I have been checking on this post for a few days and felt guilty for not saying anything. I have not been racing very long but have been enough to know that is probably the biggest expense and one of the reasons others might not show up to race. I have only bought one new set of tires since I started racing last year because the cost to longevity factor doesn't make much sense to me. I would be more inclined to buy new tires if they lasted longer rather than buying someone else's take offs.

Justin Starr #27
Sportsman

[Lurkin]

Seems like a no brainer.

Let's all not forget what we've learned here though. Patrick Thomas is old school. :-)

[Patrick Thomas 25]

I have been racing since 1995, I guess that does make me old school, but not karnac poster old school.

I always post with my name, whether it's a good thing or not is to be seen.

Patrick Thomas 25

[Lurkin]

Oh ok, I thought...well you know what I thought.

[critter]

hoosier 800

I have ordered a set of hoosier 800's to be tested . I have talked to a driver that is willing to test for Desoto speedway . I will post results after test is completed . just to let you know we are listening . Thanks Critter .

[Patrick Thomas 25]

Look at that, the wheels are in motion, maybe we will see a return to the days when we could get more than 1 race out of the tires, and just maybe we will get all of our support divisions back to the strength they once were.

Thanks Critter and Desoto speedway for being proactive in this discussion this could be huge for all of us.

Patrick Thomas 25

[Rick B.]

Just want to say on this discussion

I want to first say that the Joey Coulter Pro-Truck series, and my former series in late 2011 and 2012 implemented a tire rule to try to keep the cost of tires down for drivers. I will tell you that the trucks have gotten 3 races out of lefts although they are pretty use up as they are softer than rights,but everyone is on the same tire deal to keep that fair. Joey and I believe in trying to keep the costs down that is why we looking at alot of the rules things for next season and beyond. We are going to watch this tire test deal as well, and see what the best deal is going to be. We will continue with a tire rule, but if those tires help it be more cost effective we are certainly interested. We are also looking at one tire to run be able to run all 4 dirt races next year with as well or allow 2 after the second race on dirt. We have a tire that has been recommended and we will be looking into it. I think it is good to give ideas, etc. but it may be more effective to contact the tracks, series, the promoters or owners directly with ideas and suggestions. While this board has some good uses of discussions, there is also a bunch of garbage on here that most track owners, promoters etc. do not listen to because it seems to come from a select group of people who make it their job to make people think they know how to run a track or series but never put their money, time, sweat and hard work behind. No no one is perfect, there are mistakes and things maybe that should be done different but also if you own something, if it is your investment that is on the line, it is your choice how to do it. I try to always remember that before I bash someone over what they do at there track or series, cause I do not have money on the line in it. We are thankful for some contructive ideas done in a decent matter though. Lets see where this goes !

[Kim Brown]

New Smyrna has ordered a set to test as well. We agree something has to be done to make this more affordable for the racers. We'll see how it goes.