race team union

[egspeedway]

Big Bill had it right from the outset.He built the sport ran the races and made it financially attractive to all involved. To me the problems began when the sponsor and manufacture money got so big that NASCAR listened. The cookie cutter track and car was born and as they sought aerodynamic parity the racing got thrown out with the bath water. I suspect and hope that this is an alliance born of the realization the sport and sponsor money are in a downward spiral. We held our breath and blamed the economy but as we recover (and despite Lush Rimbaugh it is recovering) we still see fewer fans lower TV ratings and less $$$ at all stations in the sport. If this is a healthy alliance then my prayers are with them as I feel we may well need devine intervention.

[OldSchool+]

"despite..."--EG

Now that there is funny!

Can we please get a subsidy for Phil & Scott?

It seems they have less jack than Rick Hendrick and it just ain't fair!

[OldSchool+]

news update (well, not really...)

"NASCAR president Mike Helton says there is no animosity from the governing body toward the recently formed nine-team Race Team Alliance that will collaborate on initiatives and issues facing the sport....[Rob] Kaufmann insisted the RTA is not a union. Speaking Friday at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, Helton says every car owner has a voice in the garage. Helton says NASCAR will 'continue to do business the way we've done business...we believe the way we do our form of motorsports has worked.' [that is, squash any opposition like a bug] "--Jayskis [comments in brackets & bold added]

[egspeedway]

At this point I would expect a lot of billing and cooing from all participants. If sponsor $$ continues to dissappear and teams cease to exist then I think it will be high time to say NASCARS way is not working. As for viewership I don't expect any meaningful change until they do something to change the boring nature of most of the TV races. In theory this weekend should be a little more interesting but if it isn't I will contribute that to NASCARS demanding parity in all areas pertaining to aerodynamics and handling.

[andre]

To sum it up,

''you cannot let the patients run the nut house''.

Everything that the average race fans wants, the racers hates, and vice versa. So if car owners run the show, there will be no show, or whatever is left of it. We have all seen that movie B4 on local level. Big star threaten not to show up if the show is run this or that way, well you get the picture.

You want motel deal, wheel deal, you do not need a press conference to notify the world that you will buy them in bunch, unless ''there's an eel under the rock''.

[egspeedway]

To sum it up,

''you cannot let the patients run the nut house''.

Everything that the average race fans wants, the racers hates, and vice versa. So if car owners run the show, there will be no show, or whatever is left of it. We have all seen that movie B4 on local level. Big star threaten not to show up if the show is run this or that way, well you get the picture.

You want motel deal, wheel deal, you do not need a press conference to notify the world that you will buy them in bunch, unless ''there's an eel under the rock''.

Maybe I am dense but not sure what you are trying to say. Who are the racers? If you mean the individual driver I agree completely. If you mean the owners then I am not so sure as most are trying to keep multiple drivers(read sponsors) happy, then the picture gets muddy.

[andre]

Let's put it this way. There is the sanction//promotion//promotor side, in this case NA$car, and there is the player side, owners//drivers.

Both want to get the most $ out of their investment. Both have their ways to look at thing and see things.

Both have a job to do.

When one steps into the other's business, that is when the shit hits the fan.

And this is what will happen sooner or later, if the car owners wants this or that and the power to be do not agree.

[OldSchool+]

''you cannot let the patients [ie the RTA] run the nut house [the NASCAR Show on Sunday]''...because ''[the RTA has] an eel under the rock''.--Andre

[egspeedway]

I completely agree with all factions thus far. CART showed us what happens when the owners take over. I am not comfortable with Heltons assertion that NASCAR knows and is the way. For several decades that was true I am just not pleased with what I have seen in the last few years which is really when the $$$ reached astronomical proportions. I have watched the racing product on TV reach soap opera production levels in its boring and drawn out nature. Along the same timeline sponsorship and viewership have both nose dived on the same plane. In summary I hope all sides can arrive at some solution that will bring real racing back to to the fan in the stands and home watching TV.

[OldSchool+]

EG--It is a matter of determining the apparent lesser of two evils.

Keep in mind that it is NASCAR's deal. They own the franchise. Hendrick/Roush/Gibbs, whoever, don't need to pull into Loudon this weekend, and Brian and Mike aren't going to their shops for anything, the Teams are coming to them.

On their track. With their rules. With their television coverage.

[egspeedway]

EG--It is a matter of determining the apparent lesser of two evils.

Keep in mind that it is NASCAR's deal. They own the franchise. Hendrick/Roush/Gibbs, whoever, don't need to pull into Loudon this weekend, and Brian and Mike aren't going to their shops for anything, the Teams are coming to them.

On their track. With their rules. With their television coverage.

Completely agree. Money talks the rest walk, All I really want is to see a decent race on the tube. Being retired I am to old and too broke to be there in person. For the rest of you I wish a better future.

[OldSchool+]

EG,

Thx, and I hope your future is rewarding as well.

I would suggest that it is independent of $$--as the saying goes, "there ain't no roof racks on the hearse!".

Maybe take in a short track race this weekend? They always make me feel like a kid again--including yelling at the flagman, tower, or just in general from time to time!

[egspeedway]

EG,

Thx, and I hope your future is rewarding as well.

I would suggest that it is independent of $$--as the saying goes, "there ain't no roof racks on the hearse!".

Maybe take in a short track race this weekend? They always make me feel like a kid again--including yelling at the flagman, tower, or just in general from time to time!

Short track is where it is at and will always be my first love. That is why I advocate for NASCAR to try the short track format as it is more exciting, more demanding and not saddled with endless green flag runs. Racing should not be about the length of the race but rather the quality of the efforts. My problem with short tracks is they are all a minimum 2 hour drive each way.

[luke81]

There's a lot of ways this could end up going. I think the main thing the team owners want to focus on is reducing their costs. The cost to compete at Cup level are are stupid vs. the return the sponsors get for their dollar. A series that is solely dependent on advertising dollars to exist needs to be careful to keep the cost in line with value, otherwise those ad dollars will go elsewhere - as we've seen in recent years. It's 100% about ROI to major companies, and if the ROI isn't there the money goes away. I think NASCAR needs to look hard at how IndyCar handles their costs, because this year IndyCar has had better racing than NASCAR and it costs owners a heck of a lot less. The first thing they need to do is stop building an endless amount of cars. IndyCar teams typically only use 3 or 4 chassis per driver, per year. Give each team 5 chassis per year, with the option that if a car gets crashed they can junk that chassis for another one. Then stop building endless engines. From the Penske website, their Cup shop has 55 cars while their IndyCar shop has 7! IndyCar teams all lease engines for 1 million per year, and they use 8 or less. There is a penalty for changing engines before a certain mileage is reached. And all this is going to cause a huge loss of racing jobs, which sorry - thats exactly what needs to happen. It takes far too many people to operate these Cup teams. AJ Foyt has about ten people that work for his team full time. These people all have multiple jobs. The aero guy changes tires on race day. The truck driver works the pit sign. The pilot runs the air guns and hoses in the pit. Heck the crew chief mans the jack! Get the costs back to reality and the show will improve!

[OldSchool+]

If the teams are really interested in saving money, they could take a rules proposal to NASCAR that would help them all save money.

In other words, you could race for what the ARCA teams spend if the money was absolutely limited. How to do that is a question mark, but the teams should know where it is going, and should be able to level their own playing field.

Otherwise, a la the Indy Racing League, the Teams will demand more $$, get sent packing, and NASCAR will replace them with lower dollar cars.

Eventually it will shake out, with NASCAR the winner, and a smaller deal overall, again, like Indy Cars.

Actually may be a positive...