good car counts in a bad economy

[fred23]

Why does everyone keep comparing annual events to weekly racing????? It is no where near the same........one has nothing to do with the other.......one of the problems is that a lot of racers have gone to just racing at big events or traveling........not racing locally.......
this is the same exact thing that has happened in youth sports......go to a Little League on any given weekend.......they are lucky enough to have 2 to 4 teams at each age bracket......when most of us played we had 8-10 teams in each division.....now kids are either playing another sport or travel ball because that is the new rage and perceived to be better........
New racers think they can make it to NASCAR so they don't race locally, they race nationally to supposedly get exposure.......then they quit when it doesn't happen.....ie Choquette, BJ Mcleoud, Tim Russel, Michael Falk, Cope's kid, etc.....
Not many more David Rogers out there........
The weekend racer are the working class folk that just love to race at whatever level they can afford.......THE ECONOMY is still a problem in Florida ......not the only problem but a problem.......so many folks that race are tied to construction in some form or fashion.......when the bubble burst so did the car count.......hell we had three cars and a 40 ft enclosed trailer at one point......now we have one car and an open trailer...again.......but my dad loves to race and does what he can to race when he can......I haven't driven in about 2 years.......family, time and money......I am sure I am not alone......
There are many factors to what has been going on in Florida racing......ECONOMY, people preferring dirt at the moment (cyclical), more to do in the world, some bad management and the stock car racing generation(s) are getting older and the kids of today are not race fans......to long, boring and time consuming........and they are not gear heads anymore.,,,,,if they are car enthusiasts they like rice rockets that they can tune with a computer........

Lastly, racing year around is impossible to do.........for fans and racers alike......most people are not going to a racetrack every week and it is impossible for most folks to keep a race car running or in one piece on a weekly basis......

[Elkoldtimer]

Why does everyone keep comparing annual events to weekly racing????? It is no where near the same........one has nothing to do with the other.......one of the problems is that a lot of racers have gone to just racing at big events or traveling........not racing locally.......
this is the same exact thing that has happened in youth sports......go to a Little League on any given weekend.......they are lucky enough to have 2 to 4 teams at each age bracket......when most of us played we had 8-10 teams in each division.....now kids are either playing another sport or travel ball because that is the new rage and perceived to be better........
New racers think they can make it to NASCAR so they don't race locally, they race nationally to supposedly get exposure.......then they quit when it doesn't happen.....ie Choquette, BJ Mcleoud, Tim Russel, Michael Falk, Cope's kid, etc.....
Not many more David Rogers out there........
The weekend racer are the working class folk that just love to race at whatever level they can afford.......THE ECONOMY is still a problem in Florida ......not the only problem but a problem.......so many folks that race are tied to construction in some form or fashion.......when the bubble burst so did the car count.......hell we had three cars and a 40 ft enclosed trailer at one point......now we have one car and an open trailer...again.......but my dad loves to race and does what he can to race when he can......I haven't driven in about 2 years.......family, time and money......I am sure I am not alone......
There are many factors to what has been going on in Florida racing......ECONOMY, people preferring dirt at the moment (cyclical), more to do in the world, some bad management and the stock car racing generation(s) are getting older and the kids of today are not race fans......to long, boring and time consuming........and they are not gear heads anymore.,,,,,if they are car enthusiasts they like rice rockets that they can tune with a computer........

Lastly, racing year around is impossible to do.........for fans and racers alike......most people are not going to a racetrack every week and it is impossible for most folks to keep a race car running or in one piece on a weekly basis......

IMHO this is absolutely the post of the year- nails it 100%!
When i grew up none of the late model guys had ever raced karts- they were gearheads/hotrod guys who had worked their way up through the classes at the track.
Truck drivers, construction trades, mechanics, etc. who loved to race and work on cars, not some 14 year old kid racing on daddys money.
We ran twice a week for about a 20 week season + state fair and Octoberfest.
and yeah dirt seems to be the big thing here in north FL- south GA right now too.

[andre]

Why does everyone keep comparing annual events to weekly racing?????

So then, why East Bay Raceway, North Florida Speedway, Citrus County Speedway, Five Flag, Showtime, Ocala, and Volusia, all seem to have had a good year, on a weekly basis. That based on what we can read here and there.

At the same time, in the same Florida, in the same economy and the all around same data, others struggles.

It is the same here in up North, some have success, some are failure.

It has nothing to do with annual event or weekly racing. It's the same in every line of business, some have it, they are natural, some don't and never will.

[kendo]

Here we go guys. Ken can tell us if the Hobby/Thunder stocks ( what's the difference in the two? ) battle filled the grandstands on it's own. Because he's right when he says no one comes to see them.

You should not make your broad brush statements about entry level classes when you don't even know the difference between them,,,Do your self a favor and get out to the dirt track to check out large fields with 2-3 wide racing.

Meanwhile,down the road at NSS,the strictly stocks will be running the same evening for trophy only and about 5 cars will show up...along with maybe 6-9 super stocks....all because management (or lack there of) has the same opinion as you do.

[fred23]

Andre, you are right to a point......there are always certain businesses that are better than others........but right now there are fewer customers and racers also....
4 of the tracks you mentioned are dirt, more popular right now.......maybe for good
Five Flags can pull fans and racers from 3 states.......
Citrus is in a small community with not a lot to do but you are right they have done pretty well
Showtime is "new" again.....we will see how it continues ( I hope well)

The east coast of Central Florida is a shell of its self (pun intended)....believe me, I sell in that part of the state and business's are still closing or very much struggling ......Orlando is just a mess and I just don't think it will ever rebound, it will take huge money to put it back on the map and I am not sure there is really a fan base here anymore (I live and race there) it has been a disaster for a long time......I still think they should race for 6 months a year, September to March.....a lot of snow birds down and the weather is DRY.....I hope I am wrong and Ozzy gets the old girl back to when you had to pit 200 yards back in the grass.....

and to think that all those tracks are still doing what they were before the bubble burst, would be incorrect.....they are doing better than some other tracks but they are not flourishing by any stretch.....

[andre]

Agree with you Fred23, and maybe the sport will never again be what it use to be. For 62 gazillions reasons.

Here's another one:

The sport use to be local weekly racing only, or pretty much. Then few series appeared, draw big fans counts, track promoters liked the easyness of those shows, so everything turn to series. Then series events became too expensive, local tracks had no local classes per say to fall back on, now everybody is in deep shit.

2: In 1984, we took 1980 Camaro's to build Street Stock. Today rules still ask to take 1980 Camaro to build Street Stock. When was the last carburated car built? A 20 year old today and could not tell the difference between a carburator and a cardiobeat tester. Maybe time to adjust the rules to tomorrow racers instead of yesterday's.

[kendo]

Agree with you Fred23, and maybe the sport will never again be what it use to be. For 62 gazillions reasons.

Here's another one:

2: In 1984, we took 1980 Camaro's to build Street Stock. Today rules still ask to take 1980 Camaro to build Street Stock. When was the last carburated car built? A 20 year old today and could not tell the difference between a carburator and a cardiobeat tester. Maybe time to adjust the rules to tomorrow racers instead of yesterday's.

The dirt track pits are filled with Camaro's & Monte's,,,asphalt tracks,not so much....The difference is that the dirt tracks are handing out 3-30
100 dollar bills to win while the asphalt track hands you a trophy...Racers are customers and it is good to see that some tracks are working hard to fix years of neglect at the back gate,hopefully paying off in the future at the front gate.

The difference today is that Camaro costs twice to build and 3 times as much (tires & fuel) to put it on the track as it did in 1990,alltough wages have not increased much..

You are correct,the sport will never be what it once was and even big car counts are not packing the stands no matter what class is on the track.

[RSB]

The economy is definitely what ended my racing. The slow down in new construction killed me! I thought I was done forever but building and renovations have picked up in the last year and a half and I've decided to race 3 or 4 times a year. Moved to road racing which is 100 times more fun and pays 100 times less! It was never about what racing paid for me because I figured it was a hobby. The pay window was just a bonus to ad to the tire fund.

[RSB]

Well, you learn something new every day. This evening I was catching up with an old friend who has a teenaged son that is a motocross rider. The kid is very successful; he rides professionally in Europe and runs national events across America. Anyway, his dad (a guy I believe) said there was a motocross event in Oklahoma that drew 3,000 riders, and their sea of 2,500 motor homes.

I laughed when I read that you believe his dad is a guy! Then I noticed there was no comma..

[Boneman]

Damn, that was close!

[palmbayer]

Going Chumpcar racing this season. ( Entered For NOLA already). As far as I know, there is no payout what so ever. .... Don't care. I never got paid to drink beer either.

[Matt Albee]

You should not make your broad brush statements about entry level classes when you don't even know the difference between them,,,Do your self a favor and get out to the dirt track to check out large fields with 2-3 wide racing.

Meanwhile,down the road at NSS,the strictly stocks will be running the same evening for trophy only and about 5 cars will show up...along with maybe 6-9 super stocks....all because management (or lack there of) has the same opinion as you do.

Well, we'll see when you post the attendance figures for the " Entry Level " race. I'm not sure anyone in the stands knows, or more importantly cares, what the differences are in those two classes.
I haven't been to the Ocala track in years, though I hear good things have happened there. I've also heard about very short fields for weekly shows there.
I'm not in the race track business, so it's just my opinion, but if you're that confident in the fans desire to come watch " Entry Level " classes ONLY, then ask Bubba to drop all upper level classes and special shows and concentrate only on the lower classes. That might work out for you.
I'm also not an expert on what NSS does or doesn't do. I know they have issues with their weekly shows just like Bubba's does. What I do know is that Desoto has been driven into the ground, but we have good things happening here.
Be sure and post those attendance numbers. And what is the difference between those two classes?

[Frasson118]

.... most fans don't know, or more importantly, even care what the difference is...

My thoughts exactly. Fans shouldn't need to guess what they are watching. There should be a distinct difference between every class out there. No track needs 3 class's of 4-Cylinders or 2 classes of Monte Carlos.

As much as I love the northern Dirt Mods, they have the same issue.... the Big Blocks, the 358's, and the Sportsman all look identical to the casual fan (although car COUNTS) aren't a problem. Same with some Sprint car tracks in Ohio.... 410's, 360's, and 305's all on the same program. They all appear identical (but I think I could handle that as much as I love Sprints).

Granted, I've seen some excellent racing in the entry level classes, but I wouldn't cross the street to see them on purpose. I need a top-level class or two to get me in the gates.

[kendo]

you're that confident in the fans desire to come watch " Entry Level " classes ONLY

Don't think I ever said that,never meant to imply that...
My point is that the tracks that seem to do well at the back gate have healthy supporting classes.They pay the same $$$ to get in.Some tracks get it and are treating all drivers as such.The result is pits filled with cars.Hopefully some of these drivers will work their way up and go on to become future mod or late model drivers....Its quite simply,,,it all starts from the bottom up.

[andre]

Granted, I've seen some excellent racing in the entry level classes, but I wouldn't cross the street to see them on purpose. I need a top-level class or two to get me in the gates.

And that is pretty much the same for a very good %age of the crowd.

As much as I love the northern Dirt Mods, they have the same issue.... the Big Blocks, the 358's, and the Sportsman all look identical to the casual fan (although car COUNTS) aren't a problem. Same with some Sprint car tracks in Ohio.... 410's, 360's, and 305's all on the same program.

And then we wonder why we have weak car count per classes. If you take the Super Dirt Week @ Syracuse, then they had the BB and Sprints or something else, but one class of Mods, the real one , the Big Block Modified, with 100 or so cars. Now they have BB, 358 and Sportsman. They ended up with almost same total amount of cars, but spread through 3 classes.

Long time ago, they had tried a 320CI Mod class too, then that disapeared.