Dirt Payout vs. Asphalt Payout

[MW68SS]

Over the course of the next few months at different dirt tracks over the state there will be several V-8 Thunderstock ( basically a asphalt V-8 bomber 390 - 410 lift cam racing springs stock mounted shocks) races paying $ 2000 - $ 3000 to win with good pay out thru the field and at the most it is a 50 lap race. Same thing goes for Street Stocks.
There will not be 2 days of testing just show up day of race run one practice then get after it.
Question is this. If dirt tracks do this and it works for them why don't asphalt tracks try this. They dont pay Open wheel Modifieds or Sportsmans that for 100 lappers and they have 5 times the money and time invested in the race.
Maybe if they did they would have more than 12 - 13 cars per race.

[Matt Albee]

Here you have a variation on the " which came first. the chicken or the egg " question.
Track owners rely on front gate ( injector ) and back gate ( injector ) to pay the purse and all the bills every night. The smaller the crowd thru the front injector, the less money for payouts. The less money for payouts, the smaller the car count thru the back injector. The smaller the car count thru the back injector, the smaller the fan count thru the front injector because the fans don't want to watch a small car count.
The SLMs and OWMs quit coming or are no longer invited because there's no money for payouts. So the tracks, instead of fixing the problem by bringing in sponsors to pay the purse, bring in lower class cars which will race for less purse. Then the hardcore fans who have stuck it out, finally walk away because the lower classes aren't interesting to them on a stand alone basis. Then the front injector money falls again and before long the payouts for even the lowest classes are next to nothing.
A $3000 to win race for Street stocks is a fine idea for the Street stock racers, but they can't draw a crowd big enough to pay that kind of purse. So that event will likely be a one and done because the track won't be able to pay that purse again.
The payouts for SLMs and most other classes are 120-175% below where they should logically be. The SLMs are racing for the same purse they were in 1979. It's time to wake up track owners, you've got to bring in the local branches of major corporations to help pay the bills. And not just to buy a billboard and the money goes into the owners pocket.

[dd38]

If asphalt tracks did that then they could not sell more sets of over priced tires and/or a lot more over priced fuel. I think extra practice(anything more than 2 on race day), like during the week as long as the owner of the car wants to do it and for rookie drivers. This all day and the night before a big race is over doing it. And renting the track. There was a time where you could not rent the track I believe within 10 days of a big event or race there the week before a big race.

[Matt Albee]

You only need to use the NASCAR recipe for success. You provide an expansive platform, including social neighborhoods, for corporate marketing partners and stakeholders, using a completely revamped business model designed to exceed the partners and stakeholders expectations for a more intimate, affordable, and effective race day experience while affording the fans an enhanced event.
Making fun of NASCAR and their overheated PR Dept. never gets old. But the cash machine that is ISC sure brings in some money with that nonsensical double talk. The same could be done on a smaller scale by every short track in the state.

[MW68SS]

BRP has 2 or 3 races a year like this for Thunderstocks and Street Stocks. So does Clewiston. Eastbay has an annual Street Stock Championship going on its 4th year next year. So this formula must work to some point.
With the added expense of prepping a dirt track they still find it profitable to put on these races.
So how do dirt tracks find a way to make these work and asphalt tracks pay nothing when compared to what the racers put out for a LM, OWM or Sportsman races.
A good Thunderstock you will have around $4000 invested and you can race all over the place for at least $500 to win just about every week along with these $2 - 3000 to win specials.
What did the Eddie Brann race for OWM pay last year $12 - 1500? Makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

[Matt Albee]

BRP has 2 or 3 races a year like this for Thunderstocks and Street Stocks. So does Clewiston. Eastbay has an annual Street Stock Championship going on its 4th year next year. So this formula must work to some point.
With the added expense of prepping a dirt track they still find it profitable to put on these races.
So how do dirt tracks find a way to make these work and asphalt tracks pay nothing when compared to what the racers put out for a LM, OWM or Sportsman races.
A good Thunderstock you will have around $4000 invested and you can race all over the place for at least $500 to win just about every week along with these $2 - 3000 to win specials.
What did the Eddie Brann race for OWM pay last year $12 - 1500? Makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

The Eddie Brann race is for charity, so the payout isn't an issue.
I don't see any real evidence of thunderstock shows drawing any crowds at all, at least not crowds for a stand alone thunderstock race. I wouldn't drive across town to see a big Thunderstock race, much less any distance. Nor would i for a Pure Stock , or E-mod race.
My point is, that except for giving the Thunderstock guys a good pay day, a race like that would do nothing to help the race track.
Racing all over the place for a $500 to win payout is going to help you go broke. Gas to get there, entry fee for the car and crew, food, gas for the race car, tires for the race car...... you could win and not cover expenses.

[bullwhinkle]

BRP has 2 or 3 races a year like this for Thunderstocks and Street Stocks. So does Clewiston. Eastbay has an annual Street Stock Championship going on its 4th year next year. So this formula must work to some point.
With the added expense of prepping a dirt track they still find it profitable to put on these races.
So how do dirt tracks find a way to make these work and asphalt tracks pay nothing when compared to what the racers put out for a LM, OWM or Sportsman races.
A good Thunderstock you will have around $4000 invested and you can race all over the place for at least $500 to win just about every week along with these $2 - 3000 to win specials.
What did the Eddie Brann race for OWM pay last year $12 - 1500? Makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

BRP pays Thunder Stocks $300 to win. East Bay pays $125 to win. Yes you can find a race that will pay more every now and then, but you have $100 entry fees.

[zerofor]

i have to agree 100 %

You only need to use the NASCAR recipe for success. You provide an expansive platform, including social neighborhoods, for corporate marketing partners and stakeholders, using a completely revamped business model designed to exceed the partners and stakeholders expectations for a more intimate, affordable, and effective race day experience while affording the fans an enhanced event.
Making fun of NASCAR and their overheated PR Dept. never gets old. But the cash machine that is ISC sure brings in some money with that nonsensical double talk. The same could be done on a smaller scale by every short track in the state.

The main problem i see is just plain effort.Seems like there is no sense of urgency to improve the same ol same ol here .

[kendo]

BRP pays Thunder Stocks $300 to win. East Bay pays $125 to win. Yes you can find a race that will pay more every now and then, but you have $100 entry fees.

BRP is paying thunderstocks $500 to win on a regular basis...

Putnam county announced $3,000 to win 50 lapper just today for thunder stocks on Labor Day weekend,$50 entry fee.

[kendo]

I don't see any real evidence of thunderstock shows drawing any crowds at all, at least not crowds for a stand alone thunderstock race.

I wouldn't drive across town to see a big Thunderstock race, much less any distance

I guess if you were not there you would not see it

[Matt Albee]

And if a tree falls in the forest, but no one is there to hear, does it make a sound?
I guess we'll have the opportunity to find out shortly. If Putnam is going to stage a big payday for Thunderstocks on Labor Day, then we'll have attendance figures to go by. We'll see if a big Thunderstock race can pack the stands. I know it will pack the pits, but that isn't the issue.
Like it or not, there is no demand from spectators to watch the lower class cars racing. And if you aren't giving the fans a show that makes them afraid to miss it, you can't pay big purses. Of course the Thunderstock/Street Stock/E-mod racers could always just pay $300 each at the back injector and split the pool. Then you don't really need spectators at all.

[kendo]

Question is this. If dirt tracks do this and it works for them why don't asphalt tracks try this.
Maybe if they did they would have more than 12 - 13 cars per race.

Like them or not,if you follow dirt racing in Florida you know that there is a very large network of Thunder Stock drivers....Sad to say,I don't think that there is a large network of any asphalt classes left in the state of Florida

Some of you can argue all you want about who draws the fans but 1 thunderstock driver with family/crew members is most likely the equivalent of 6 paying families at the front gate.

There are 3 tracks that seem to be having a purse war....good news for Thunder Stocks !

[luke81]

I think its an unfair statement to say the lower classes don't draw any fans on dirt. They often put on a good show all the way down to the 4cyl bombers. And fans don't jam the exits when the late models or sprints are over. Sure a few bail then, but most stay for the whole program. Those lower classes are a critical component of the value of the admission ticket. I promise you few people would pay a 12$ admission to watch just sprint cars.

Pavement's problem is that the front injector isn't doing its part for weekly racing. The last regular sprint car race at Showtime I counted about 140 people in the stands early in the racing, with a few more trickling in later. Thats sad. I dont know where the fault lies, but they better fix it if they want to keep going.

[MW68SS]

I was basically using Thunder Stock as an example due to the fact its a lower rung class and still has opportunities to race for that kind of money. When on asphalt will OWM's or Sportsman's get a chance to race for that kind of money.
The person I get to drive for at the start of the year had a asphalt Sportsman and a dirt Street Stock. We run 3 races on asphalt and between testing and racing went thru 3 sets of tires and spent 7- 800 dollars a race. The Dirt Street Stock we have run 6 races and have spent around 900 dollars total and that included buying a set of tires to start the year.
He had never run dirt until this year and liked it so much we sold the sportsman and he went out and bought himself a dirt car.
We plan on racing in at least three 3000 dollar to win races between now and the end of the year. We would never have the opportunity to run for that kind of money on asphalt and that is my point.

[Benny The Mule]

Hobbystock, streetstock, bombers etc are the grass roots. Affordable cars, easy to fix and they are loyal to their hobby/sport. Remember what your late models were back in the day? So soon we forget. They don't constantly bitch about payout VS the cost of their car and crew. I get tired of hearing them called lower or support classes when usually the best races of the night are the guys rubbing and banging for position instead of worrying about wrinkling their $200 nose of chipping a fender.

How many here went to the Hobby 100 that Volusia used to put on?

Huge car count and crowd for a headline (lower) class car.

I spent many years in hobby and streetstock before i moved up to sportsman. Spent a ton of money and quit racing.