Daytona

[Matt Albee]

I finally got to watch my TVod version of Saturday nights Daytona Firecracker 400. Yeah, I know it's got a different corporate type name now, but it's the Firecracker 400.
The race had to be one of the worst I've seen at Daytona. The Gen 6 ( anyone ever remember hearing any previous NASCAR stock car referred to as the Gen 2 car, or the Gen 5 car ? ) can't pull out and pass, it can't push another car for very long, and everyone is forced to ride around single file. A lot of people tried to make a move, tried the middle, tried just about everything, and couldn't go anywhere.
I was reading a comparison between this race and the 2000 Talladega race where Dale sr went from about 18th to the lead in just a couple of laps. Driving this latest NASCAR designed mess, Dale couldn't have moved up to 17th much less the lead.

[Frasson118]

I don't know how it looked on TV, but the Friday Busch Series (yeah, I know it has a different corporate name) was pretty damn exciting in person (Thanks again Dave). There was a LOT of passing going on.

Being a Kyle Larson fan, I particularly followed his progress. I saw him go from 16th to 10th, to 3rd and back to 15th... in 3 laps.

This happened all the way through the lead pack cars, even though the Penske team of Hornish & Logano seemed stronger than the rest (yet neither won).

I don't know why one division can make it work pretty well, while the other one was a snooze-fest.

Another thing.... for 'supposedly' the 'best racers in the country', I saw a ton of amateurs out there. There was very little 'talent' on display. The most impressed I was all night was the save that AJ Allmendinger pulled off. Trying to avoid a wreck ahead of him, he had that thing pointed every direction other than upside down, and didn't touch anything. Outstanding car control, or VERY lucky. The rest seemed like they were at the Little 500 in the Go-Karts.

Friday was worth it.... Saturday, I'm glad I didn't spend a dime on it.

[Winger]

We were talking about the races earlier. I didn't find the 400 particularly good and for that matter, I didn't care for the tandem racing the Nationwide cars did. When the drivers all have their foot to the floor and don't let up at all, how can you expect anyone to pass. Personally, I'd like to see the restrictor plates go. Give the drivers back some throttle control. There are other ways to slow the cars down but still allow the drivers to "drive". Put them on smaller tires, take the front spoiler away and some other aero devices you will never see on a street car. Better yet, let them race the body shapes of actual street versions cars with no body changes at all. No wings, no spoilers, no lowered sides, etc. Have templates from actual street version models. Let them have their race engines and setups under the sheetmetal but do away with the aero. That should slow the cars down while letting the "real" racers race.

[tccaz]

[QUOTE= There are other ways to slow the cars down but still allow the drivers to "drive". Put them on smaller tires, take the front spoiler away and some other aero devices you will never see on a street car. Better yet, let them race the body shapes of actual street versions cars with no body changes at all. No wings, no spoilers, no lowered sides, etc. Have templates from actual street version models. Let them have their race engines and setups under the sheetmetal but do away with the aero. That should slow the cars down while letting the "real" racers race.[/QUOTE]



I'll second that opinion. I didn't like IROC and I don't like every car to be the same, let the guys who can build and race a real car do that/

[luke81]

They're darned if the do, darned if they don't. I'd wager to say that it would be a far better race to take away the plates and remove a bunch of grip forcing the drivers to slow down and actually drive, but then half of the fanbase would throw a fit because they're only going 160 instead of 195 or whatever they went.

[Matt Albee]

I've always thought the racing would improve dramatically if the cars were STOCK bodied, with a rear spoiler and a front air dam like the old days. Problem is, a totally stock body would very likely be extremely unstable at the speeds those guys are going. Back in the day, they didn't have the kind of horsepower they have now.
You could put them on narrower tires to slow them down, but it's a wreck fest already, it would be non-stop cautions if those cars had less traction than they do now.
I sure hope somebody comes up with a plan to fix it, because there are going to be fewer and fewer spectators through the injectors if this kind of racing continues on the super speedways.

[ancrdave]

Just for fun, I thought it would be interesting to compare the races held this past Saturday and the Medal of Honor Firecracker 400 held 40 years ago on July 4, 1973...

This Saturday, 29 cars finished on the lead lap and there would have been more had there not been so many wrecks late in the race... 34 of the 43 starters were still running at the finish... Johnson beat Stewart to the line by .107 seconds...

In 1973, David Pearson beat Richard Petty by six car lengths... They were the only two cars on the lead lap. Buddy Baker, Gordon Johncock and Benny Parsons finished third-fifth, all four laps down! Dave Marcis was sixth, six laps down. Joe Frasson finished tenth and he was 8 laps down. There were 28 of the 40 starters running at the finish, very good for those days, but no multi-car wrecks and only two caution flags...

You could pretty much say that two-thirds of Saturday's field had a legitimate chance to win... In the 1973 race, looking at the line-up, there were about 10 teams that had a good shot at winning... the rest were "independent" teams and drivers just trying for a good finish and to make enough money to get to the next race...

One thing that really caused this year's race to not be as good was the fact that Johnson led the majority of the laps, although by only a car length or less on most occasions... Still there were 18 lead changes and 10 leaders which is actually pretty low for Daytona...

In 1973, there were only five race leaders, but 25 lead changes... Bobby Isaac led a few early laps but in the first half of the race it was Bobby Allison and Cale Yarborough swapping the lead several times... After they both fell out, it became a patented Pearson/Petty battle as they swapped the top spot 11 times between laps 66-160... So there was a good battle for the lead, but only between two cars...

Probably not fair to compare, since 1973 was pre-restrictor plate, but the races today are certainly more interesting than back then simply because there are more top teams who can run up front or, at least stay on the lead lap... Plus no ending the race under caution!!!

[clincher47]

Two lines of cars unable to pass and riding around until someone screws up or blows a tire and a big wreck occurs. Good racing. If they returned to a stock body and engine package with the safety items allowed, a short track team could run a cup car for what they spend on a late model. There could be 70 or 80 cup teams instead of 45 and some of the nations best short tracks and road courses could have cup races. JMO. Also if the France family would spend the money and remove the banking at the third and forth end of the speedway, there would be no need for restrictor plates.

[Matt Albee]

Just for fun, I thought it would be interesting to compare the races held this past Saturday and the Medal of Honor Firecracker 400 held 40 years ago on July 4, 1973...

This Saturday, 29 cars finished on the lead lap and there would have been more had there not been so many wrecks late in the race... 34 of the 43 starters were still running at the finish... Johnson beat Stewart to the line by .107 seconds...

In 1973, David Pearson beat Richard Petty by six car lengths... They were the only two cars on the lead lap. Buddy Baker, Gordon Johncock and Benny Parsons finished third-fifth, all four laps down! Dave Marcis was sixth, six laps down. Joe Frasson finished tenth and he was 8 laps down. There were 28 of the 40 starters running at the finish, very good for those days, but no multi-car wrecks and only two caution flags...

You could pretty much say that two-thirds of Saturday's field had a legitimate chance to win... In the 1973 race, looking at the line-up, there were about 10 teams that had a good shot at winning... the rest were "independent" teams and drivers just trying for a good finish and to make enough money to get to the next race...

One thing that really caused this year's race to not be as good was the fact that Johnson led the majority of the laps, although by only a car length or less on most occasions... Still there were 18 lead changes and 10 leaders which is actually pretty low for Daytona...

In 1973, there were only five race leaders, but 25 lead changes... Bobby Isaac led a few early laps but in the first half of the race it was Bobby Allison and Cale Yarborough swapping the lead several times... After they both fell out, it became a patented Pearson/Petty battle as they swapped the top spot 11 times between laps 66-160... So there was a good battle for the lead, but only between two cars...

Probably not fair to compare, since 1973 was pre-restrictor plate, but the races today are certainly more interesting than back then simply because there are more top teams who can run up front or, at least stay on the lead lap... Plus no ending the race under caution!!!

You and I obviously have a very different concept of the word " interesting".
NASCAR, in their never ending quest to re-write history, often mention the " but there were only two cars were on the lead lap at the end " finish as though that was a bad thing. In the cases where there were only a couple, the lead swapped around on a pretty regular basis. And what's always left out of the race description is that there were constant battles throughout the field to hold spectators attention. And as we all know there were far more cars on the lead lap in other Firecracker 400s. The point is, and always has been, the competition of the old days no longer exists today. The cars never rode around nose to tail for 50 laps. If another car was in reach, the cars behind were always pulling out of the draft and passing. That still goes for the current racing, except the passing part. They all pull out to pass now, but they instantly stall out and remain side by side or fall back.

[steadysteve]

Glad I missed it

I was at Full Throttle saturday night,but from what some of you have posted,a pretty boring race w/ Jimmie Johnson winning with Tony Stewart second.

Now I did see the Nationwide race,and it was very good.Matt Kenseth winning a very close race.Plus,he didnt lead until the last pit stop when he only took 2 tires.

I like Travis Pastrana,but he caused that wreckmwhen he thouight he was clear of White in the #24,but he's no Danica.He had fast time for the race,and was at the front for most of the race.

I do feel that this drafting,with racing partners has to change.I would rather watch them individually,only using drafting to pass.Anyone else feel this way,or am I alone in this thinking?

[Matt Albee]

I've seen news footage of the Nationwide race and it looked to be pretty competitive. Those cars use a completely different body design, and it seems to promote passing, drafting, and actual racing. I'm sure there's a Gen something or other name or number for these Nationwide cars.
I did see some photos of the crowd at the Nationwide race, the injectors were pretty empty for that race. Adding more injectors will be just the fix NASCAR needs at Daytona.

[Darren]

The France family is going to fix things. They are going to spend 400 million of their money to make DIS a place people will want to come to. However, the product that they sure be trying to sell or fix will not change.

[Matt Albee]

I was reading an interesting interview of the Daytona track President. He mentioned that after ISC invests all the millions into the new injectors and the new neighborhoods on the frontstretch, that the track could then easily be used for things like football games and other sports events. I think he mentioned concerts too, but it's been used for concerts very successfully already. Might be a hint of the mindset of the France family. Already setting up to become stick and ball franchise owners. I wonder how important the racing would be to a wanna be football team owner like Brian France?

[zerofor]

They might finish killing off blacktop short track racing first

I was reading an interesting interview of the Daytona track President. He mentioned that after ISC invests all the millions into the new injectors and the new neighborhoods on the frontstretch, that the track could then easily be used for things like football games and other sports events. I think he mentioned concerts too, but it's been used for concerts very successfully already. Might be a hint of the mindset of the France family. Already setting up to become stick and ball franchise owners. I wonder how important the racing would be to a wanna be football team owner like Brian France?

But who knows?

[kletus]

Thanx for the info. All I saw was a 2 hour COKE commercial and a commercial free track drying session. LOL. TNT SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX !!!!!!!!!