Why have a race car if you don't race?

[sbracer58]

I'm breaking a cardinal rule of "reporting"; that being don't print without verifying. but since I'm new to the area I don't have the contacts to validate what seems obvious to me. So understand I don't pretend to be an expert on this topic in this area.

But based on the car counts, or more accurately lack of car counts, I tend to believe the rumblings I hear in the pits at NSS and OSW which is; guys are leaving their cars on jack stands because of some disagreement or dispute with the track. If that's really true then you're not really a racer...and to me saying I'm not a racer will get you punched in the nose faster than callin' my wife fat or making fun of my mother!

If you idiots keep this up;it won't be long before the threads are lamenting the demise of yet another short track!! The largest percentage of the racers at most short tracks are racing for fun. We're not the next anybody. We just want to race, do well and load the car back on/in the trailer in the same condition.

So are you having fun with your cars sittin' in the garage? If the track closes, what are you going to do then? And don't think it won't happen because it has and it will. Nearly every state has had tracks close.

And if you think dirt is cheaper then you clearly haven't done your homework. If you want race anything on any surface it's expensive. (DUH)

So if you have a car and the means to race it, then bring it out and compete! You're not proving a point to the track owner/officials..you're just proving you're not a racer; you're just a whiner!

[Bill Barstow]

I'm breaking a cardinal rule of "reporting"; that being don't print without verifying. but since I'm new to the area I don't have the contacts to validate what seems obvious to me. So understand I don't pretend to be an expert on this topic in this area.

But based on the car counts, or more accurately lack of car counts, I tend to believe the rumblings I hear in the pits at NSS and OSW which is; guys are leaving their cars on jack stands because of some disagreement or dispute with the track. If that's really true then you're not really a racer...and to me saying I'm not a racer will get you punched in the nose faster than callin' my wife fat or making fun of my mother!

If you idiots keep this up;it won't be long before the threads are lamenting the demise of yet another short track!! The largest percentage of the racers at most short tracks are racing for fun. We're not the next anybody. We just want to race, do well and load the car back on/in the trailer in the same condition.

So are you having fun with your cars sittin' in the garage? If the track closes, what are you going to do then? And don't think it won't happen because it has and it will. Nearly every state has had tracks close.

And if you think dirt is cheaper then you clearly haven't done your homework. If you want race anything on any surface it's expensive. (DUH)

So if you have a car and the means to race it, then bring it out and compete! You're not proving a point to the track owner/officials..you're just proving you're not a racer; you're just a whiner!

I can tell you 50 ways to Sunday dirt is cheaper . I made the switch and very happy with the saving....

[al_tere_go_05]

I'm going road racing. But not because i have some sort of disagreement with the track, its more of a lack of interest in the classes that run in Florida.

[Frasson118]

Pretty much, across the board, the racers that have done both will vouch that dirt is cheaper to run on a regular basis.

I was told by one racer that switched, that his tire budget for the entire dirt season was LESS than the Snowball Derby alone.

Nobody is trying to claim running dirt is cheap, just cheapER.

Body rules seem to be a huge expense and time consuming. I've heard approximately 40 man-hours to assemble an ABC body, which needs to be repaired with new panels every time. The dirt guys break out a 2x4 and a rubber mallet, and possibly a box of rivets. You hit the wall with an ABC body, you're out thousands of $$. Hit the wall on dirt, you peel the sheet metal away from the tires and rejoin the field.

Just one or two of the 50 reasons that I'm sure Bill Barstow will verify.

[Benny The Mule]

sbracer58,

When i quit racing i sold my car. Not right away but i did because it wasn't doing anything.

The man who bought it still races it regularly up in NC.

My priorities changed is why i quit. If my car would drive on the trailer it went to a track regardless of pay, car count or who the favorite was that week.

[dd38]

Billy, what kind of dirt car do/did you run? It may be cheaper to operate a Dirt Car on a race nite because of the tire expense. But it doesn't cost thousands of dollars to repair a body. If you need to replace a panel most of the time you can repair it with a fiberglass kit from the parts store, or make friends with a local body shop. By the way the doors are aluminum. It's the racer/owners choice if they want to replace it. The noses are of the same material and about the same price. Personally I cannot stand a wrinkled up car in any class after being beat out as you say "with a 2X4 and a rubber mallet". If I replace my panels, they average around $100-$125 a panel if they are unrepairable. Hard to believe if you hit the wall with a Dirt Late Model you can "Peel the sheet metal away from the tires and rejoin the field". They have a lot more suspension under them than a Asphalt car. Unless you are running a Tank or a lower division. A-frames, spindles, axle tubes, wheel bearings, Brake pads, shocks, suspension parts, ETC all cost about the same. I know those Bird Cages cannot be cheap. I know guys that have $25,000-$35,000 and up in a modified engine. And it isn't even a Dry Sump. A Dirt Late model engine usually starts at $35,000-$40,000 and up. Have you ever seen a Dirt engine after a season? You basically throw most everything away and start over from the dirt/sand eating it up. Looks like it has been Sand Blasted from the inside. Along with the other stuff, like suspension stuff that is wore out from the dirt/sand eating away at it.

[Mike Bresnahan]

Dirt is cheaper. I ran both dirt and pavement late Models, and had I not made a bad choice and bought a crate motor I probably would still be racing the dirt car.

Bodies are a lot cheaper and easier to work on. No fiberglass, No lexan, No air boxes, brake ducts, no templates etc. Just replacing a nose and building an airbox/bumper on a Pavement car can easily turn into an all day project. Not to mention in Pavement you are at the mercy of Fivestar and ARP to pay what ever price they feel like charging for fenders etc.

Brake Pads and Rotors are much cheaper... On Dirt you use the brakes more in the pits than on the track. Brake fluid alone for my pavement car is $90 a bottle.

No radios on Dirt actually mean a lot less wrecks. If I'm only to your qtr panel I know you cant see me so I lift. On pavement I'm assuming the spotter thats driving your car is going to tell you I'm there, and your going to listen... CRASH!!!

Tires - You buy a lot less tires on Dirt, but you still have to have a bunch on hand. Different compounds, different grooves etc. It's a bigger intial investment but far less total for the year.

Time - On dirt your lucky to get 5 practice laps, this was tough for me trying to learn but it also meant less time at the race track wearing my equipment out.

I think all the track time afforded to us in the Pavement world is ONE of the things killing the sport. Weekly practice nights and before big races benefit those of us lucky enough to get off work and can afford to go. But the guy working two shifts or the dad that has to coach his sons little league team is forced to miss out, and whether its perception or reality he feels he's falling further behind his competition and is forced to make a choice....

Is anyone going to quit or not show up on raceday because they didnt get 100 laps of practice on Thursday? Maybe on a case by case basis, but overall it would save ALL racers a ton of money and help level the playing field, while adding to car counts.... I'm guilty of it, I go to practice nights and rent the track when needed. I have to to keep up. But if they (my competition) couldn't, and I couldn't we'd all save a bunch of time and money. Gotta make this sport more of a hobby and less of a job again to bring people back and attract new people.

[modracer#8]

ok so somebody answer the question please!!! how much does it cost to build a dirt car and how much does it cost weekly to run. versus a asphalt car .

[Mike Bresnahan]

What class?

[Frasson118]

Mike.... Thanks for those last 2 paragraphs. I've been saying for years now that the asphalt tracks are allowing FAR too much practice time. Every $ you spend for practice, is a $ your not spending RACING.

And not just on the racecar either. Practice nights before every 100 lapped in the state is gonna require an extra night of pit passes, extra tank of fuel, extra set of tires, hotel rooms for everyone, and 2-3 extra meals for each crew member. All this adds up, and the guys who can't afford either the dollars, or thee time off work, they just wind up staying home. Very few guys show up on race day, that weren't there for practice night.

Lots of money out, not one penny coming back in.

But the TRACKS love it......

[modracer#8]

like compared to a late model dirt to a asphalt side by side how much does it cost to build them race ready ? thanks.

[Mike Bresnahan]

Modracer,

That's too hard of a blanket question to answer. But minus engines (rules and options vary too much to put a price on it) I'd say a new dirt car with the absolute best of everything can't be built for roughly half a pavement car of equal quality of components.

Dirt- No expensive ABC bodies. No clutch. No exotic trannys. No Bell housing. No exotic headers. Most just run a spool so you save $1500 on a rear end unit. Brakes are cheaper. The list goes on.

Weekly expense to run a pavement car- tires $600. 15 gals racing fuel est $150.
Maintenance another $150 per race. Pit passes, cooler full of drinks, hauler fuel are all things that vary... You can estimate we're running at $1,200 per race expense wise before we tear anything up or buy those new shocks or whatever else just hit the market...

[rpmmotorsports 2]

Dirt VS Asphalt

15 gals racing fuel est $150.
Maintenance another $150 per race. Pit passes, cooler full of drinks, hauler fuel are all things that vary.
Don't you spend this in dirt racing also? So the only difference is the $600.00 for tires. But If you don't have tires already for dirt then you still have to buy them maybe not as often. After a night of dirt racing you will spend any extra money saved on the washing of your dirt car getting all of the clay out of every nook and cranny.

[Frasson118]

For a weekly show, it's pretty well impossible to use 15 gallons @$10 per.

Practice consists of maybe 5-8 laps, heat races are 10, and the feature is 25-30.

Asphalt guys will do that many laps before the grandstands open.

[modracer#8]

yea I spend about $30.00 to top off my mod at the gas station regular gas and if I buy tires that's $550.00 and$ 25.00 to get in the track. oh yea another $60.00 in fuel for my truck to get there . that's what it cost me to run my e-mod on asphalt on a good night . so $665,00 if I buy tires. 115.00 if I don't that's what it cost me .