double file re-starts

[Edm]

The only excitement in some races are the double file restarts. As a driver I loved them.

[ss29]

double file restarts are great. i love them as a driver and a fan.some so called drivers just need better driving skills lol

[victory10]

actually, the last few seasons in Michigan, double file restarts are very common. There are a couple tracks that do not do it still but the majority has went to it for the fans.

I personally dont care for them unless you are racing with guys who use thier heads, which is rarely that every driver does or will. To me, if your car is working well, you can get to the front either way & if your not, your going to fall back either way. It is also true that the average exspense cost goes up with double file versus single. Not for everyone but for several as double just leaves a greater chance of a 1-2 car altercation turning into a 6-8 car pile up. Either way is fine with me but I just prefer the single!

[openwm53]

I wasnt

Going to comment on this but ; I also like the idea of double file but.......There have been several good points made in this thread. There are several variables to this rule. Double file restarts work well if its a two groove track. Double file restarts work well if you know the competition and there is mutual respect. Showtime for example is still a green track and there has been NO ONE who has hooked up the outside. Therefore the fastest way around is the bottom and people want and have to get there but SOME people will and do drive over you. The last three races at Showtime have been wreck fests in the modified class. The last race was one of the ugliest races that i have been associated with. We are not driving street stocks or enduros we are driving high powered open wheel machines like the sprint guys kinda. We have the biggest tire vrs. horsepower differential of all classes and no wings. I cannot speak for the other tracks or classes but do believe it can be done cleanly with a track that supports the outside groove and has a class of drivers that respect each other and has the experiance to handle his machine. JMO

[Frasson118]

Some tracks block off the bottom lane during practice so the drivers are forced into running the second groove. Not only does it bring in a second groove, but guys learn to set up the car to run the outside.

If everyone ONLY runs the bottom, you'll see a freight train every week.

[scottgarrity07]

I know some tracks have been experimenting with traction enhancing chemicals that they have sprayed in the second groove. It is essentially the same stuff that is laid down in the launch area at drag strips. I know it has been done at Showtime and I saw a barrel of it in the Tire Barn at Auburndale a few weeks back. I have seen it work at some places I have raced real well and seen it been not that successful at other places I have run. Has anybody raced extensively on this stuff or have any knowledge about how to make it work well? From what I understand it makes the race rubber stick to the asphalt better. I used to race at a track where they put the cones down to try and lay rubber in the outside groove. After a while most people stopped going out to practice in that session for different reasons or just used it for a scuff session. I'm not sure if it worked or not. I think ultimately the success or failure of double-file restarts depends on how good the second groove is and how much respect/patience there is among the drivers in a particular class. The respect/patience thing requires everyone to participate. The guy on the bottom not running the outside car up the track, the guy on the outside not chopping down on the guy on the inside once he gets a bumper ahead of him (crowding is o.k., as long as you leave him some racetrack to run on) and the guys behind them not knocking the guys around in front of them who are showing patience with one another or making a jackass three-wide move.

[chevyj31]

Most of the guys who have to fix and pay for there own fenders and doors, will show more respect. Problem being is a lot of the drivers today, (rich kids) don't have to fix or pay for damage they cause! They simple show back up next week and there car looks brand new. I used to drive, and my goal was to be there at the end of the race, even if it ment a little give and take, I don't see it in today's racers, or society in general.

[Benny The Mule]

Most of the guys who have to fix and pay for there own fenders and doors, will show more respect. Problem being is a lot of the drivers today, (rich kids) don't have to fix or pay for damage they cause! They simple show back up next week and there car looks brand new. I used to drive, and my goal was to be there at the end of the race, even if it ment a little give and take, I don't see it in today's racers, or society in general.

Beat their eyes shut and they will learn respect........I did.

On an asphalt track there is no such thing as one lane..........grow some balls and go to the outside, make another lane.......which i also did.

The rich kids thing.....i know what your sayin.

[Dana Barlow]

double file re-starts,are great for the fans and as a driver,I loved them,most places I raced at that also used them,seem to have a rule the in the last 5 laps of a race,restarts were back to one line,and that seemed good too,for the end of a race.

[andre]

On an asphalt track there is no such thing as one lane..........grow some balls and go to the outside, make another lane

So so true,

And as far as single file restart, if, as a racer, you think that it should be SFR, then maybe you should rent a race track and practice ALONE, or switch to SOLO racing, Bcuz you are definitely not in the good section of Motorsport.

If you are so afraid of broken fenders, why in hell did you choose Stock Car Racing as your hobby to start with??????????? This sport was built on fender banging, spark flying, bump and running, out of the way moving, etc!!!!!! That is what it is..

And for the idiots that cannot execute a SFR, there is a guy up there in the command booth that has a job to do, and that is part of his job to pinpoint those idiots and somehow take care of those unnecessary behaviors.

[victory10]

im all good with banging out fenders for sure. im also well aware of the exact thing that has been said about the ones who dont have to pay for anything & drive as such & what I seen a few weeks ago was ALOT more than cosmetic things...lol. Again, & I could be wrong, but I think it was a deal where everyone was pretty pumped up about the first series race & it was simply first race hype. The part I really dont get is the use of radios, I would think, should make the pinching, running a guy high, the quarter shots & cutting off alot better on restarts & during the race, but from what I have seen so far, that is not the case. Either the radio is being used for negative reasons or the spotters are not doing to swell at clear or not clear...LOL. On the other hand, we didnt do the double file starts & couldnt go more than 5-7 laps without a caution so who knows.....LOL.

the whole "every track has 2 grooves" thing is no longer the case as almost every place I have been to watch or race could use fresh paving but the owners are struggling to keep places open as it is without a 70-100K paving bill. In addition, they like to & need to have thier demo derbys, night of destructions, enduros and such which are money makers for them because there is no purse to pay out & they cant have them if they repave.

the use the stuff scott is talking about up north pretty regularly & the key is not having the cones up for practice BUT getting it down no later than thursday & letting it set in the sun. it bakes in pretty good & the first session is a bit snotty but then it makes it really fast. The drawback of doing it early is if it rains friday or before it can bake in, its a mess for race day. The problem they run into at first was they put it on the bottom, the top & all the way around the track. Made a huge difference but, made such a difference, it killed the whole desire for 2 lane racing because the bottom went from fast to ultra fast and the top went from average to fast...lol. what they finally did was put it on the top groove only and only in the corners about 30 feet out from the entry & exit points. it saved the tracks alot of money, worked excellent & the racing improved a ton.

[scottgarrity07]

Thanks for the insight on the traction enhancers Todd. Maybe some of the track guys will read your comments and apply the stuff how you mentioned. I love the outside groove (when it's working) and it's real fun to go out there when it works. When guys are checking up to stay on the bottom you can really gain some spots getting in and out of the corners with a clear lane to run in. I don't think having the "balls" to go to the outside is the problem, its the "brains" to know its just not there sometimes that keeps us on the bottom. Someone once said that there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity. I was told by some guys that ran Citrus last year that when they used the "goo" that the outside lane was actually the fast way around at times during the year. I think part of the problem at Auburndale is that little concrete strip on the apron gives you a TON of grip. ALthough it was my first time there a few weeks ago, I noticed it made a ton of difference when you were able to get your left side tires down on it. With the tight, flat turns there, the extra bite on the bottom makes the top real unfavorable. I know the Super Late Models have had success with some side by side racing at A-Dale, but they have a lot more tire than us Sportsman, OWM's and Truck guys. And I don't know about the whole "setting your car up to run the outside" thing. That's a little misleading. It's just that if your car is handling real well then you can run the outside. I have never found there to be some kind of magic high-groove setup from my experience.