Falling On Hard Times?

[ancrdave]

Was looking at the results from the final night of the Legend Car/Bandolero Summer Shootout at Charlotte Motor Speedway... How things have changed... This used to be one huge event, and still is (to a point) but the fields really dwindled this year... They had 110 cars compete Tuesday night, which is a lot of machinery, but not that impressive when you split it into seven classes... The max starting grid for any shootout race is 28 and just a couple of years ago, nearly every class would need a B-main... Tuesday night, the biggest field for any race was 24 and the once-mighty Pro Legend Car Division had a whopping 8 cars! Is it the economy or have the Legends/Bandoleros run their course for the time being? I know from talking to people who have run there that you'd better be ready to tear up your equipment at Charlotte and that may be keeping some drivers away... plus I hear there are a lot of politics and favoritism shown there...
I've also noticed quite a few "old" names missing from the Florida races with the Auburndale field struggling to get 15 cars nowadays after 20 used to be a small field... OSW is lucky to get 5 and I guess the almighty Bronson effort fell flat on its face... Will be interesting to see if Yoho can entice anybody to come out of the woodwork and race at Showtime... Interested in hearing from any current/semi-retired/or former Legend Car racers on the topic and of course the Frasson's, Bonemen and OSF's of the world can chime in too... AND I know Mr. Marcus will have a thing or two to say!

[racin24dev]

well a lot of the same reasons apply to down here in Florida as they do up in Charlotte...

For one, you see a lot of favoritism, and the tech man does absolutely nothing, when clearly, something NEEDS to be done. These factors alone take almost all of the fun out of it. Don't get me wrong, Legend cars are a blast to drive, but I've now moved on to bigger and better things, and we are still spending the same money as we were when we had our Legend. Motors are outrageous, especially when you're racing against some of stallions that some LCOF guys have.

I'm not complaining about anything from when I was in Legends as they taught me a lot about racing. They are quite the handful to drive and will keep you fresh and on your toes.

[chevyj31]

"no energy in the air"

Racers are customers, If I treated my customers the way the promoters treat the racers, I would be out of business, period. Racers are being nickle and dimed to death, to make up for promoters who do not want to promote. They want to sell fuel, tires, and parking spaces. Some tracks have ran off so many racers, that is is just too late to repair the damage. You need 5 classes per night, with 20 cars per class, and the stands will be full. The problem is when the fans come out and see 3-5 cars per class, they never come back.

[kendo]

Racers are customers, If I treated my customers the way the promoters treat the racers, I would be out of business, period. Racers are being nickle and dimed to death, to make up for promoters who do not want to promote. They want to sell fuel, tires, and parking spaces. Some tracks have ran off so many racers, that is is just too late to repair the damage. You need 5 classes per night, with 20 cars per class, and the stands will be full. The problem is when the fans come out and see 3-5 cars per class, they never come back.

Couldnt agree more...I used to race at a track that had 70+ street stocks every saturday nite,took 4 features to run them all.The track paid us lousy $25 to win and gave us 8 laps.Management told us that "nobody comes to watch the street stocks so deal with it"...
These days they are lucky to get 10 street stocks,the pits are half full,and the stands are empty.

I always try to support our local tracks but often leave disappointed..,hopefully NSS will have more than 28 cars in the pits this weekend

[Boneman]

Does anyone on here know how to make a Prius into an inexpensive racecar? How about a Chevy Cruze or a Hyundai? I don't know how to work on those engines, and I bet that most of us don't. That is why a car like a Legend is criticly important to the future of the sport on a local level. We can all pull a Chevelle out of the junkyard, rebuild the engine, wire it up and away we go, but I think the days of doing that are behind us.

Tube frame racecars have had little or no resemblence to stock cars for years. They are not effected by the evolution of street/junk cars. How long do you think we will be able to race antique Monte Carlos? Their time is mostly past, so we need something that we can work on, or at least understand, to take their place for the hobby racer on a budget.

I like Legends, and I recognize that part of our future is tied to them. I'm not involved with them, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Don't give up on classes like this, we are going to need them more and more

[Dana Barlow]

to Boneman

To get the cheep junkyard racers going again= supply of EZ to race parts have a gap=it is=,/There is an untaped market of selling ready to go auto v8,v6 and 4cly computer boxs,that have hook-up plan ect. made for this market on racing. Said custom aftermarket box must be able to run FI and timing. and tran were needed, plus have a RPM max seting that can be locked by track/tech. This is not out there now in a way that can be put to racers as it should. That is why we are not seeing as you said,newer junkyard stuff being used,it must be made simple enough to make the motors and trans work for low buck racers. RPM limet makes it posible to hold motor at a more even out put as well.

[chevyj31]

tube chassis

Legends are just to small, and most stock car guys dont like the bike engines. the cars are a little on the un-safe side too. When some chassis builder comes out with a full size tube frame car, with a create engine for under 10 grand, it could become the new entry level class to replace street stocks. then you have to find a track to inforce the rules, that will be the hard part.the legends people spent a lot of time on marketing.

[Denman]

Anncr Dave, Don't forget the 8-10 which run Punta Gorda's legend division on Saturdays (when open) There are about 6 names from the old OSW days competing. I agree the count is down but a few of the OSW class can now be seen in Late Models, Arca even Nascar Trucks,such as Bryan Silas which diminishes our count. Plus in my opinion the Legends do not garner the respect that other classes have and this may be keeping newcomers from getting involved in that class. Also was fortunate enough to attend one of those Charlotte shows back in 2010 and it was really in a class by itself. 20 somehing heats and 7 features. Wonder if Humpy Wheeler not being around that track has hurt the car count? Just a thought.

[MOE #15]

So True

Make Racing Cheaper And The Rules Must Be Enforced.

[Boneman]

Dana, I like your idea of a universal ignition/EFI controller. If that was somehow on the market, then someone can start making cage kits for
Accords and Corollas.

[scottgarrity07]

Chevyj31 you have the right idea and there is a solution (doubt it will gain traction with track owners though). With the slow disappearance of junkyard rwd V8s the correct combination would be a tube chassis that accepts stock parts and mate it with a crate (could have open motors too, adjusted to be on keel with the Crate). Start it as a Street Stock with a bone stock GM replacement crate for $1300 and put the Old Monte body on it (lots of companies making these panels now). Move up with the same chassis to a Sportsman (Limited Late Model, whatever you want to call it) with the GM 602 for around $3000 and put ABC nose and home fab panels on it. Move up again to Pro Late Model with the same chassis, a template ABC Body and put a GM 604 or Ford 347SR Crate in it for $5000 (more for the Ford). Allow chassis upgrades with the class advances, (3 link, better shocks, etc from SS to Sportsman), (coil overs, spindles,torque link, wide five, etc) to Pro Late. Run the SS on Hoosier Commanches, Sportsman on 8" Hoosier slick, Pro Lates on 10" Hoosier slick. You would have 3 classes that look completely different, run at different speeds and create a ladder system that never requires you to buy a new chassis. Would be very healthy for racing but requires a radical new approach to thinking (but you could phase it in). Thing is, there is a company making this chassis. Check it out: http://www.johnsonchassis.com/upload....5_2-10-11.pdf

$1595 for the bare frame that will accept all GM stock bolt ons.

[Bosco]

Chevyj31 you have the right idea and there is a solution (doubt it will gain traction with track owners though). With the slow disappearance of junkyard rwd V8s the correct combination would be a tube chassis that accepts stock parts and mate it with a crate (could have open motors too, adjusted to be on keel with the Crate). Start it as a Street Stock with a bone stock GM replacement crate for $1300 and put the Old Monte body on it (lots of companies making these panels now). Move up with the same chassis to a Sportsman (Limited Late Model, whatever you want to call it) with the GM 602 for around $3000 and put ABC nose and home fab panels on it. Move up again to Pro Late Model with the same chassis, a template ABC Body and put a GM 604 or Ford 347SR Crate in it for $5000 (more for the Ford). Allow chassis upgrades with the class advances, (3 link, better shocks, etc from SS to Sportsman), (coil overs, spindles,torque link, wide five, etc) to Pro Late. Run the SS on Hoosier Commanches, Sportsman on 8" Hoosier slick, Pro Lates on 10" Hoosier slick. You would have 3 classes that look completely different, run at different speeds and create a ladder system that never requires you to buy a new chassis. Would be very healthy for racing but requires a radical new approach to thinking (but you could phase it in). Thing is, there is a company making this chassis. Check it out: http://www.johnsonchassis.com/upload....5_2-10-11.pdf

$1595 for the bare frame that will accept all GM stock bolt ons.

I was at Charlotte last weekend for our Crane Cams V8 Races and met AJ Johnson from Johnson chassis. AJ was a former car builder for Geoff Bodine when he ran modifieds and also worked for Nascar in the research center. VERY talented guy.

He brought one of the Metric tube chassis to the track, it had the new ARP 2012 Mustang body on it. Very cool and the workmanship was outstanding.
A Canadian group has a series for these using 8" tires and 604 crates.
This was no. 13 for that group.

More expensive initially, but the cost could be amortized so to speak as these woud be around a lot longer.

ARP now makes Camaro, Mustang and Challenger bodies to fit these metric style chassis. I think that would also create more interest.

[Rusty the 50/50 Guy]

Was staying quiet until I read one part....
Where are the Legends and Bando's unsafe????? Check your records...not saying that something bad can not happen in them...but before you make a statement check the stats

[Rusty the 50/50 Guy]

Legend and Bando cars do EXACTLY what they were aimed to do....look at your top tier drivers at your local tracks.....how many came through the ranks of Legends and Bando's? Not all but quite a few....You can hate Bando's..here is my point on them....IF we can keep 1...just 1 kid out of trouble with a Bando, it is worth all of the pain and suffering the fans can deal with!!! I would rather have a kid driving a bando and making Boneman uneasy Friday night than to have the kid end up in drugs or worse!!! Boneman I am not picking on you...just using you as an example

[Rusty the 50/50 Guy]

By the way....my first dealings with Legends...I did not like them either!!! Remember back in the old ThunderCross days!!!! They were like cows on ice! They were NOT big old V-8 rumblers!