You make the call - Jonathan Guy vs. Daniel Webster

[Racefan99]

After the lap 64 caution waved, Guy got his spot back. After the lap 89 caution waved, both of the leaders were sent to the tail, and the 97 went on to claim the win.

VIDEO

The complete video can be ordered from Gordon Motorsports, at 305-661-0045.

[Benny The Mule]

First restart 33 got by clean, next restart leader was blocking. The right calls were made.

Hold your line an outrun the other car........not try to run it into the grass when your getting passed.

[Bobby Diehl]

From my view.

For what it's worth. I do know who was in which car (I turned off the volume so not to know). The #33was much faster. The first time he got by clean. The second time he used the same move, but the #42 learned from the first time. As the #33 hooked up (diamonding)off the corner the #42 move over just a very little to (if not for a better word) block. It truly was the responsibility of the #33 to get by clean. In super slow mo you can see the #42 wheels turn left to defend his position (and right fully so) and the #33 was not up far enough up the car (obviously). It happens so fast at short tracks it's hard to place blame. Thus "RIGHT CALL is BOTH TO THE REAR" (that's racing). Really no other choice for who ever was making the calls. You would need instant replay. And that would take to long with out a video team of four people set up to make these type of calls. I seen the same calls have been challenge since 1995 when Teddy K got me to go short track racing with FASTRUCK (AMERICAN RACE TRUCK) Series and than owning CCMP. Life is giving and taking, but if you go to take and the other one not willing to give. The rules has to make the call. Just my 2 cents.
Oh yah GREAT VIDEO and Congrat's Patrick TEAM in the #97 you could see it was either 3rd or 1st now that's "SMART RACING"!

[Osmosis Jones]

Seriously....

Bobby, do you ever just read any of your posts to sound how (for lack of a better word) UNINFORMED you really are?

You attempt to qualify your ability to give an assessment of this very, very, very,very,very,very common short track situation by posting your resume...........again............but I'm pretty confident no one who has been to a race track would need SUPER, SLOW-MO to understand what happened between the two lead cars this night.

It's pretty simple stuff, actually. Racing 101, if you will.

What I am having a hard time understanding.....and again, given the source....is how do you justify the leader needing to "defend" his position by turning "slightly" to the left to (for lack of a better word) "block" the 33. And, while still on the straightaway, you believe that the 33 should slow down his pass of the 42 until such a time that the 42 won't attempt to block him.
I'll re-iterate that this was still the straightaway.....not the entrance to the turn where track position "might" be in question.

Is this really what you were "teaching" the FASTKIDS about how to pass for the lead? Or how to "defend" your position on a racetrack when a superior and/or faster driver is trying to get around you? To make your car as wide as you can and either shove someone to the infield or stuff them into the outside wall should they try and drive around you?
Is this the way you instructed your "officials" to make calls at Punta Gorda? I knew there were other reasons why I didn't like that place....I mean, other than that step-ladder outside wall, the launch-pad tires in the middle of the turns and that pesky potential for a multiple fatality crash of a race car up into the lawn chair crowd a few feet away from the racing surface.


But I digress.

This is a short track. The same short track that was there long before video recollection ever came along. The same short track that was there long before there were spotters in the turns with radios who all had to "check-in" with the flagman before he could make an "informed" decision. The same track that was there long before race cars were radio controlled by daddies with $5000 worth of radios sitting in the stands.

In other words: If there's a pass for the lead coming off of turn four. Who the hell do you think the starter is watching? The hotdog vendor? The two guys slugging it out for 15th and 16th place? I'd be willing to bet that Auburndale has the same policy that St. Pete had for years. Both vehicles that are involved in a caution flag situation go to the rear. If there is an innocent party then this type of ruling usually leads to the racers policing themselves. If your leading a race and you know the guy behind you is the same guy you chopped last week, you can bet that you'll be going around sometime in the very near future. Sooner or later you get "schooled up" and learn how to be a better "driver" and not just a "position defender".



Class dismissed.
The teacher is excused.

[Bobby Diehl]

You make the call - Jonathan Guy vs. Daniel Webster

Bobby, do you ever just read any of your posts to sound how (for lack of a better word) UNINFORMED you really are?

You attempt to qualify your ability to give an assessment of this very, very, very,very,very,very common short track situation by posting your resume...........again............but I'm pretty confident no one who has been to a race track would need SUPER, SLOW-MO to understand what happened between the two lead cars this night.

It's pretty simple stuff, actually. Racing 101, if you will.

What I am having a hard time understanding.....and again, given the source....is how do you justify the leader needing to "defend" his position by turning "slightly" to the left to (for lack of a better word) "block" the 33. And, while still on the straightaway, you believe that the 33 should slow down his pass of the 42 until such a time that the 42 won't attempt to block him.
I'll re-iterate that this was still the straightaway.....not the entrance to the turn where track position "might" be in question.

Is this really what you were "teaching" the FASTKIDS about how to pass for the lead? Or how to "defend" your position on a racetrack when a superior and/or faster driver is trying to get around you? To make your car as wide as you can and either shove someone to the infield or stuff them into the outside wall should they try and drive around you?
Is this the way you instructed your "officials" to make calls at Punta Gorda? I knew there were other reasons why I didn't like that place....I mean, other than that step-ladder outside wall, the launch-pad tires in the middle of the turns and that pesky potential for a multiple fatality crash of a race car up into the lawn chair crowd a few feet away from the racing surface.


But I digress.

This is a short track. The same short track that was there long before video recollection ever came along. The same short track that was there long before there were spotters in the turns with radios who all had to "check-in" with the flagman before he could make an "informed" decision. The same track that was there long before race cars were radio controlled by daddies with $5000 worth of radios sitting in the stands.

In other words: If there's a pass for the lead coming off of turn four. Who the hell do you think the starter is watching? The hotdog vendor? The two guys slugging it out for 15th and 16th place? I'd be willing to bet that Auburndale has the same policy that St. Pete had for years. Both vehicles that are involved in a caution flag situation go to the rear. If there is an innocent party then this type of ruling usually leads to the racers policing themselves. If your leading a race and you know the guy behind you is the same guy you chopped last week, you can bet that you'll be going around sometime in the very near future. Sooner or later you get "schooled up" and learn how to be a better "driver" and not just a "position defender".



Class dismissed.
The teacher is excused.

OZZ-MOANE JONES

Here's your quiz.
1.What do you do for a living????????
2.Are you Educated (have any degress or cerfitction at all)????
3.Ever owned anything??
4. Built anything?????
5. Won anything????
5.What's back ground do you have to make the statements you make????

Professor OSzieeeee.................

The question was "You make the call - Jonathan Guy vs. Daniel Webster" .

All I did is look at it (without sound for a reason not to have bias) and say what I thought the call should of been (which was the question to begin with). When developing the Series we (not just me but all my Officials, and the FASTRUCK Committee which was a group of peers that completed in the Series) went through a lot of different ways to make calls. After Starting (Don N told me "BOBBY YOU NEED TO OWN A TRACK" which was another new world experience) CCMP we went through another view of making calls.

Professor OZZ....

In answering the post I very sorry I upset you (we may need to meet after class).
I did always think you where a pretty smart guy. Oh well.

As a Teacher you get what ever come in the door. Since 1976 I've had many Osmoans in my class. They sure make life FUN!!!!

Back to Educating America.

[rknhvc09]

life is all about decisions!!! lol jon did a hell of a job the whole race up to the point where he decided to " protect his spot" !! but who wouldnt have...

[Vail716]

looks to me lap was completed with webster in the lead

[Winger]

No question Guy came down on Webster the second time. BTW, the yellow came out before the lap was complete on the first pass. It wasn't a "block" though. You block by putting your car in the lane the guy behind you wants. In this case, Webster was already along side of Guy and Guy put him into the infield. I'm not a fan of officials making determinations on what a drivers intentions were or what they were actually thinking. With that said, there are two possible options. Put the both to the back, or put Webster to the back and Guy gets black flagged for rough driving. Like I said earlier, I don't want to try to read Guy's mind so I'd probably give him the benefit of doubt and say he was trying to block but was just a little late and unintentionally put Webster into the grass. So I'd put them both to the back. That said, it was on the straight and it does appear to be intentional. Sucks for Webster.

LOL at Bobby asking OJ for his creds. Bobby, you might not like the answer.

[MiniRacer26]

looks to me lap was completed with webster in the lead

EXACTLY....Daniel shouldn't have had to pass him on the restart. He cleared the line, thus LEADING a lap prior to the caution. Another sketchy call involving a "conflict of interest" is all I can say. Daniel you got robbed buddy!

[polesitter61]

ALL cars must complete the lap for it to be official. Only exception is if the only car not completing the lap, is the car bringing out the caution. So ALL of the cars, except for the one that spun, would have to complete the lap before the caution came out. No way to tell that on the video. I still think Daniel got a raw deal, but I think the scoring was probably right.

[Racefan99]

Actually, if you stop the video at the moment that Daniel Webster is crossing the line after the first restart, you can see the flagman is waving the yellow. The guy waved it quick. So, that was the right call IMHO (putting Guy back in front).

The reason I posted the first restart is because of Jonathan Guy's comments on the Tommy King show last week. He said that the only reason Webster got alongside of him was because it was on a restart. But, that was not true. He was remembering the lap 64 restart, I guess, but that had nothing to do with the final incident.

[RSB]

My two cents: If you look back at the previous lap, the 42 definitely
changed his line on the lap when the accident occurred because he didn't want to get PASSED AGAIN! If he would have been a little smarter he would have hugged the bottom a little more on corner exit and made the 33 pass him on the outside. He may have been fast enough to make it work. You learn from your mistakes.
If I were the flagman, I would have sent the 42 to the rear.


Bobby, I don't agree with what you wrote but that's your opinion( I think).
You might want to delete question #2 also seeing as you have managed to misspell degrees and certification!! AND, you have two question #5's!! You crack me up, BRO!

[Osmosis Jones]

Tell you what.

Here's a little "homework" assignment for you.

Take that response that you wrote to me and have an elementary school teacher grade it for content and grammar. If you can score over a 50%, I'll retract my post and issue a full apology.

I'm thinking I'm pretty safe, though.

You're the guy who keeps posting about how you "taught" every one of these Florida kids whose daddies plopped them behind the wheel of race truck or late model when they were 12 years old. You're the guy who keeps cutting and pasting from well written NASCAR stories and then adding your own mistspelt(sic) and off the point anecdotes that most times contradict everything the story that you swiped was trying to report on.

To brag about being an educator, and I don't care if you are a shop teacher or a calculus professor, then to make posts that could seemingly be confused with something written by a sub-standard, middle school drop-out......you might as well just hold up a sign saying "GO AHEAD, KARNACIANS...MAKE FUN OF ME!"

Hmmm....you'd probably have to get some fifth grader to write it for you to make sure people could read and understand it.


And although I don't feel the need to quantify anything about myself or my ability to make comprehendable and reasonable posts that both state my opinion AND attempt to counterpoint a member with an opposing point of view....I'll go ahead and do it just for you, Mr. Diehl.

1.What do you do for a living????????
By now most people on here know I am a Firefighter/EMT. I also instruct on the odd-occasion and I am a (yes, Certified) Emergency Vehicle Operations Trainer
2.Are you Educated (have any degress or cerfitction at all)????
I have an Associates Degree in Fire Science along with several certifications including state certifications for Driver/Engineer, Fire Officer and Fire Instructor.
3.Ever owned anything??
Yes. Lots of stuff. Try to be more specific, please.
4. Built anything?????
Again, yes....specifics, Bob. If you mean race cars, then yes, several.
5. Won anything????
I'm sensing "specifics" is a term you're unfamiliar with. Yes, I have won several races and 1 points championship. Are you interested in any other sports I compete in? I almost forgot. I was the Jessie P. Miller Elementary School Spelling Bee champion twice (4th and 5th grades).
5.What's back ground do you have to make the statements you make????
Didn't I just answer #5?? One semester I did take a course in Abnormal Human Behavior. I got a B+.....I figure it's helping me get a read on you. Other than that just a few dozen years plus a few spent building, driving, sweating over and watching race cars both at the shop and at the track.

I know it's not much but hey, I'm still young.



OJ out

[Edm]

Tell you what.

Here's a little "homework" assignment for you.

Take that response that you wrote to me and have an elementary school teacher grade it for content and grammar. If you can score over a 50%, I'll retract my post and issue a full apology.

I'm thinking I'm pretty safe, though.

You're the guy who keeps posting about how you "taught" every one of these Florida kids whose daddies plopped them behind the wheel of race truck or late model when they were 12 years old. You're the guy who keeps cutting and pasting from well written NASCAR stories and then adding your own mistspelt(sic) and off the point anecdotes that most times contradict everything the story that you swiped was trying to report on.

To brag about being an educator, and I don't care if you are a shop teacher or a calculus professor, then to make posts that could seemingly be confused with something written by a sub-standard, middle school drop-out......you might as well just hold up a sign saying "GO AHEAD, KARNACIANS...MAKE FUN OF ME!"

Hmmm....you'd probably have to get some fifth grader to write it for you to make sure people could read and understand it.


And although I don't feel the need to quantify anything about myself or my ability to make comprehendable and reasonable posts that both state my opinion AND attempt to counterpoint a member with an opposing point of view....I'll go ahead and do it just for you, Mr. Diehl.

1.What do you do for a living????????
By now most people on here know I am a Firefighter/EMT. I also instruct on the odd-occasion and I am a (yes, Certified) Emergency Vehicle Operations Trainer
2.Are you Educated (have any degress or cerfitction at all)????
I have an Associates Degree in Fire Science along with several certifications including state certifications for Driver/Engineer, Fire Officer and Fire Instructor.
3.Ever owned anything??
Yes. Lots of stuff. Try to be more specific, please.
4. Built anything?????
Again, yes....specifics, Bob. If you mean race cars, then yes, several.
5. Won anything????
I'm sensing "specifics" is a term you're unfamiliar with. Yes, I have won several races and 1 points championship. Are you interested in any other sports I compete in? I almost forgot. I was the Jessie P. Miller Elementary School Spelling Bee champion twice (4th and 5th grades).
5.What's back ground do you have to make the statements you make????
Didn't I just answer #5?? One semester I did take a course in Abnormal Human Behavior. I got a B+.....I figure it's helping me get a read on you. Other than that just a few dozen years plus a few spent building, driving, sweating over and watching race cars both at the shop and at the track.

I know it's not much but hey, I'm still young.



OJ out

as always very entertaining,
assuming I spelled entertaining right because there is not a broken red line under it.

[Vantage]

Real scary!

The really scary part is this guy (Bobby), somehow, recieved from some institution in this fine country of ours, I presume, some type of degree to enable him to educate our children and is currently doing so. WOW! I wonder why we are where we are and falling fast.