Crate Motors????? Are they????

[sgmpman]

I guess nobody else wants to touch it so I will. It was said that a track let a protest stand on a teardown of a crate motor. Now I understand they can and should be protested. But should the track make the owner break the seals and tear the heads off at the track? Should the track look at an engine builder and say he can put it back together? (not a certified crate rebuilder mind you) Why in the heck do they call it a crate? I always thought that if it was to broke down like that a certified builder or dealership had to do it. If this is true, which I think it is. Throw your crate program out the window. These sealed bolts are so easy to get. None the less look at a non certified crate builder and ask if he had seals and could put it back together. That is like giving your cat a mouse and saying don't kill it. Soon as you are gone you will have a dead mouse. How the heck does the track know what went in motor. May main thing is this. Is it still a crate? Not in my eyes. Way to go to this track manager. You just ruined any fair crate deal at your track.

[Rick Williamson]

How mean of you know of a driver the has 2 or 3 sets of seals siting on his shelve? I think there is to much fath put into crates. As far as being fair and by the rules.

[Todd McCreary]

on the one hand you're complaining about tearing a crate motor down and on the other you're complaining about how easy it is to "fake" a crate motor with the ready availability of seal bolts?

do you understand that you directly contradict yourself?

if it's easy to fake one then you must tear them down to be certain they are what they say they are.

if it's easy to fake one then there is no point in demanding that have a 'certified' builder put it back together. because, shucks, the racer could just pull the seals, rebuild it however he wants, put his own seal bolts in it and then point at his legit receipt and say "i'm good, whatchoo complaining about"?


and besides, are YOU going to pay the rebuild fee the 'certified shop' is going to hand to the car owner? if a guy submits his sealed motor for a tear down you're penalizing him even if he passes. that's not right.

[Edm]

its simple, you get the fancy little tools and you tech the crates even harder.

[Boneman]

explaination please

Not trying to be a wise-a$$, but isn't there a difference between a crate and a sealed motor? I thought crate motors were mass-produced, factory built, uniform race engines. Are they also sealed to "prohibit modifications"? (ha ha).

[racetech63]

I think SGMPMAN's point is this.
If you are going to have a crate motor program at your track then there needs to be a true way of teching them at the track without tearing them down, or it needs to be sent to a "certified crate shop" to be checked for legality.

The following is pure opinion and I know none of the facts about this only what I have heard. I do not represent any track or engine builder in this matter. LOL I have to put this because some folks are so damn thin skinned

Now here lies a problem. The track that he is speaking of allows the 602 crate in the super stock class. Very few people racing in the class has the kind of protest money that it would take to have it checked the correct way (sending to a crate certified shop). So they allowed the cylinder heads to be checked for $250.00. The only thing I heard that was checked was combustion chamber volume (to see if the heads had been decked). Because of the way it was done the $250.00 dollar tear down cost the owner of the motor alot of money because he will have to make a built motor out of it since it can't be a crate unless sent to a crate rebuilder.


Combustion chamber volume could have been checked with a sonic checker and they could have pumped the motor (both of which the track has the tools to do). If they wanted to check cam lift that is doable also. Take the valve springs off, install test springs and check lift with a dial indicator. The test springs will keep from collapsing lifters and giving false lift readings.

[racetech63]

I think some track managers would be better suited for a job behind the microphone..........


"would you like fries with that Big Mac?"

[sgmpman]

Todd, no I didn't. What I am saying is this. Crate motors are sealed. If you have a crate there are different ways to check without pulling the heads. If you do pull heads it has to go back to a certified crate motor rebuilder or a dealership. When it comes back to the track it should have documents showing who rebuilt it. What I heard happened is the track manager had the heads tore off at the track. Then really didn't care who put it back together as long as it had seals. Now there is a thing called a pump or dyno. Or like racetech63 said. Whole idea behind crate is to avoid this. I just think it is pretty stupid to do that. It will ruin crate motors if you don't keep up on it.

[andre]

Here's something you might look into if you want to have a Spec or Crate mtotor program at your track and or serie, is what is being done at ACT in Vermont.

Here's the basic.
Tom Curley's ACT run a tour of Late Model Sportsman in the North East US, two provinces in Canada and also operate the very exciting high bank Thunder Road 1/4 track in Barre, Vermont.

Their LMS cars run a 603 Spec motor. ALL MOTORS must come from Butler Mc Master Racing Engine, Maine. Everyone single of them has been taken apart, rebuilt, & dyno tested. One dyno sheet stays at BMM, one to the racer & one to ACT office.

Randomly, they pick 2, 3 or 4 motors after a race event and ship them to BMM for dyno test. That takes care of tear down. Numbers should match. Sometime, in doubt, they will take one apart. If you get caught with something that doesn't fit, bye bye motor, big fine and don't come back for one calendar year, second offense, you can go race on the moon if you desire so but not here, forever.

You can check them out at: www.acttour.com

Is this system perfect? Hell no! Nothing is. But by far, it's the best I have seen and it really works.

André

[chassisdude]

I have never claimed to be a motor man, but I don't see why checking all the common stuff on a crate wouldn't show if it was messed with. What you pump it, check compression, pull vacuum, check valve springs and cam lift. Some one told me that built motors need RPM, if so then put a 6500 chip in the ignition? Some one educate me. I like crates I think it can save a guy a lot of money.

[sgmpman]

Let me give you my take from what I hear. Rev chip doesn't matter if you are on the right tires. Builts and crates can run together. In another post it showed it worked up north. A rev chip for a crate? Why, it is said after 6200 to 6500 you don't get much. From 6500 to 7200 you might,if your lucky get 1 to 2 hp. But at that rpm you wear motor quick. Reality is this. If you allow the crate to run in the program, then do it right. You are right, many ways to check without tearing head off. That was whole idea behind crate so you didn't have to do this.