Reality Check (soap box)

[georgep]

Are these folks NUTS or what:

1. Post about motors with special chips or no chips (like mine with dip please)
2. Tracks are hurting all over due to the gas price that the FANS pay to get there so what do they do ($20.00 or higher for tickets)
3. The car counts are down at most tracks that have run so far in the south east, WHY cost in the pits and lack of money in the middle and back of the pack to keep them running.

Let us take a look at the state of racing at the track called XYZ
This track races on Saturday night and pays the top division $1,000.00 to win. The guy who is 10th gets $100.00 and last gets a thanks for coming.
The track has it's "TOP RUNNER OR RUNNERS" these 2 or 3 teams win every week getting all the top money.

A guy tows for 100 miles (50 each way) with his friends, wife and kids to race at XYZ. Not a top car but he can run in the top 10. He goes BROKE since the money is at the top of the order. Bad night and he is realy in deep crap.

Why has nobody that can do anything about it seen that if you SPRED the wealth and LOWER the grandstands you will FILL the stands.

Bean counters note:
1000 people at $20.00 is $20,000.00 If the ALL had a drink that is another $1,000.00 Total take $21,000.00.
NOW
2000 people at $10.00 is $20,0000.00 (more can afford to go) If THEY all had 1 drink that is $2,000.00. Total Take is $22,000.00.

Look at the BIG picture and not the SHORT TERM you will do a LOT BETTER.

[Joe]

$20 to see any short track race is too much. I just paid $30 to go to Atlanta for the Cup race and could see the whole track. Now you want me to pay $20 to see a bunch of guys I never heard of? (If I were Joe Blow casual race fan, that is) That's absurd.

Charge $10 or $12, cover your track in dirt and cut classes.

[JackTripper]

I know there was a mini-revolt in the DIRT Modified series when they changed the prize structure to distribute some wealth to the bottom portion of the field. Obviously the guys who hussle to get sponsors to pay for the go-fast parts weren't real pleased with that.

I agree with you on admission but I don't know about the pay structure part of it.

[ocalasp76]

Good Idea

Good idea Joe..........but it has been done, and you know where. If opening night and the practice sessions are any indication, I'd say it works.
-----JIM----

[glxxx]

Some organizations and promoters still don't realize that you need a full field of cars...even if that means subsidizing them by improving the payouts through the whole field. Otherwise the show will not be good...fans like numbers and noise...and the race will take care of itself. This is a critical year with fuel prices like they are (and will be!). Even race fuel has gone through the roof!

This is the local short track racing scenario for the most part... In the winter when the "stars" and big shows come down, you can bump ticket prices, but it won't work for regular season shows. Short tracks are attended by good, honest, working class people for the most part...and they will be priced out of the market, and will stay home and watch it on TV!

Local racing is in a recession I'm afraid...look at the empty seats at NAZCAR races...it affects everyone. Good Luck to all!

[BJ Cavin]

I believe that what a lot of people forget is that racers at the local level PAY to race. It's just like golfers who pay to play golf. You purchase the right to use someone's facility to do what you enjoy doing. Payouts are a way for racers to recoup some of that money, but no racer is going to make much off racing at a local short track. That said, it's not like the tracks are swimming in money. There are expenses, like concessions (somebody has to buy the burgers and the buns), and the lights (which are very expensive to run), and the employees must be paid. There is also insurance, taxes, and repairs/upkeep of the facilities. Every track owner/promoter has sat down and done the math, and knows how many people need to buy a ticket for him to break even. We can all speculate as to how it should all break down, but the reality of the situation is that there are too many variables to come up with a proper equation. Spreading out the payouts deeper through the field may encourage drivers to race, but it's not the final solution to low car counts. Cutting expenses helps far more than paying out, and so does treating the drivers fairly and respectfully. For some reason, many promoters seem to have the idea that talking down to people is a great way to foster good business. If the drivers feel welcomed and respected, they'll come back and bring other drivers with them no matter what you pay out. Many dirt racers show up to race every week for nothing more than a trophy all because they enjoy what they do and the track treats them with respect. Money is one thing, and yes the economy right now is no help. But whether it's racers or fans, if you treat them right they'll keep coming back.

[glxxx]

Sorry Mr. Calvin, it is not like the local golfer...

The tracks are charging admissions to fans to make a PROFIT from a racer's hobby. For the record, I am not against profits. The PGA is like that also, making a profit(as well as players getting paid), pleasure golf is zero profit. There is no risk to life and limb playing golf (unless you can't hear the word "fore!!!" ) The expenses to "play" aren't even close, even for any racing class.

The analogy is not a good one. If everyone walked in the front gate for free, you would have a better point...

Track operators in some locales really need to think about how to keep car counts at enjoyable levels for those fans...not picking on you!

[ovalracer44]

Track operators in some locales really need to think about how to keep car counts at enjoyable levels for those fans...not picking on you!

I have made some recommendations for the ministock division to cut costs, yet every time I do, I get flamed severely. And usually by 2 or 3 people. We are on the verge of some very hard and trying economic times. You think car counts are low now, wait until middle of summer when diesel gets up in to the 4.20 range like forecasted.

[charles oneill]

money

promoters did you see what happens when you pay good money . full stands if your gonig to have late models pay at least 2000.00 to win 100.00 to take green . if you have mods as your top class pay 800.00 to win 75.00 to take the green. also no point money. ocala you got the best chance to take the lead friday night. if you get the best drivers & cars you are going to be a big winner.ps dont get mad at my bad spelling

[Benny The Mule]

I believe that what a lot of people forget is that racers at the local level PAY to race. It's just like golfers who pay to play golf. You purchase the right to use someone's facility to do what you enjoy doing. Payouts are a way for racers to recoup some of that money, but no racer is going to make much off racing at a local short track. That said, it's not like the tracks are swimming in money. There are expenses, like concessions (somebody has to buy the burgers and the buns), and the lights (which are very expensive to run), and the employees must be paid. There is also insurance, taxes, and repairs/upkeep of the facilities. Every track owner/promoter has sat down and done the math, and knows how many people need to buy a ticket for him to break even. We can all speculate as to how it should all break down, but the reality of the situation is that there are too many variables to come up with a proper equation. Spreading out the payouts deeper through the field may encourage drivers to race, but it's not the final solution to low car counts. Cutting expenses helps far more than paying out, and so does treating the drivers fairly and respectfully. For some reason, many promoters seem to have the idea that talking down to people is a great way to foster good business. If the drivers feel welcomed and respected, they'll come back and bring other drivers with them no matter what you pay out. Many dirt racers show up to race every week for nothing more than a trophy all because they enjoy what they do and the track treats them with respect. Money is one thing, and yes the economy right now is no help. But whether it's racers or fans, if you treat them right they'll keep coming back.

You really made some good points there. Here's my take.It's a 2 way street for tracks and drivers. No tracks-no racing- local business man builds a track so he can make money off the racing, no racers-no money.

The promoter part is what kills me everywhere not just Fla. All i see anymore are track owners living off the gates and hotdog sales INSTEAD of hiring a promoter go out and sell the track to businesses. This of coarse does not include everyone for some guys are promoting and have good car count and fans.

The part about treating everyone fair and respectful (don't forget concistency on calls and tech) will DEFINATELY keep the pits full.

Finally as much as i hate to admit the Don Nerone has a very valid point. When a special race is part of a full program it is extremely selfish for fans to want 40 LM's to show up for 24 starting spots so the fans can see 2 extra heat races and 16 guys load up and go home with NOTHING! I too would prefer the 24 BEST cars around.

If that is the only show and is promoted well and pays well.....that's different, (Lucas oil latemodels at East bay). i believe is saw 98 cars race the 1st night i was there.


And last is the fact that i have started noticing the Na$kkar races this year with the announcers hollerin sold out 130 thousand people here today in actuality if the stands were flat there would be holes big enough to land helicopters in them. It's finally catching up, the greed, the hype, and of coarse the fact that all over the US you see guys every weekend get up on the wheel and put on a show, but the guy who gets a cup ride won 10 go-kart races but has a big sponsor with him so he's in. And after crashing millions of $$$$ worth of everyone's equipment he starts running decent, or even good and gets paid hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars a year! BLAH! It will catch up and i wonder what the teams and drivers are gonna do when Na$kkar starts cutting purses?...........it may not be as far away as we think.

[Frasson118]

I understand that Promoters need to bring in X amount of dollars through the gates every week to stay afloat, but charging higher gate fees is not the answer to that problem. I say reduce the prices until the stands are filled every week, and THEN charge a little more. As I've said before, empty seats buy no Hot Dogs... and they won't bring a friend with them next time either.

There is a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar, and the tracks all realize this too. If you can't get equal, or more, entertainment for your money, you'll spend it elsewhere. Bottom line.... we need more excitement for our money. Endles classes of Pinto's, Monte Carlo's and Bandeleros aren't creating any more excitement than they did 15 years ago. Late Models (all 4 or 5 versions of them) all look pretty much identical, and the aerodynamics of these cars has ruined competition. No passing & lots of crashing. I'm not interested in that anymore... especially for $20.

Not picking on the local asphalt tracks here, but asphalt in general has lost a LOT of its lustre over the last 15 years or so. Gone are the glory days of a race like the All-American 400, where guys from Florida (Balough, Bigley, Keene) could compete head-to-head with cars from Georgia (Ridley), Texas (Freddie Fryar, John Kelley), Michigan (Senneker, Steele, Butch Miller & Eddy), Canada (Hanley, Urlin), Vermont (Craven, Lepage), Wisconsin (Trickle, Shear, Bickle), North Carolina (Query), Ohio (St. Amant), even Colorado (Carelli) and Washington (Garrett Evans). Rules were nearly identical, and it was an exciting time to be a LM fan.

Not anymore.

Fewer classes of cars with identical rulebooks across the region, will increase the number of cars in those classes. With more cars come more fans. Look at the Dirt Late Model world. Literally thousands of racecars that can go anywhere in the US and be legal. Most big races for these cars bring at least 40 (up to 200 at Eldora) cars, fans from several different states, and EXCITEMENT. Now that's worth $20 to get in!

As for payouts.... take a look at the loudest complainers about purse money, and get a good look at the rig they brought to the track. Likely you'll see someone with $150K in his truck, trailer and graphics, pissing and moaning about the $300 for 5th place. If $300 was a make-or-break dollar figure for you, I'd have some sympathy. Don't waste untold thousands of dollars, and then bitch about $300.

As a fan, I'd like to see:
No more than 4 regular classes.... full fields in each.
Double-file restarts for at least half of the race distance.
NO TIME TRIALS.... they just plain suck, and kill any chance of a good race. I recently saw 4 features (different tracks, different classes) that lined up by time-trials... not 1 pass for the lead in any single one of them.
Handicapped or luck of the draw starting positions.
Either RaceCeivers in each car, or enough track personnel to prevent the endless caution laps because of line-up confusion.
A full program that lasts no more than 3 - 3 1/2 hours. Longer than that, you are losing fans by the minute.

After all this, I realize Joe had it right (with FAR fewer words)... "Charge $10, cover it with dirt, and cut classes".

You hit it right on the head Bro!

[Joe]

Thanks for the kind words, JR. I'm anxious to see how the Ocala experiment plays out.

A few more dandies:

- Racetracks only get one Monte Carlo class.
- Drive all the Pintos off a cliff somewhere.
- Don't run Bandoleros when people are paying to get in.
- Charge $2 for a can/draft beer.
- Every promoter should be fortunate enough to have a conversation with Bruton Smith.
- Focus on the fans first. Racers, you all are fantastic, but you only see one side of the fence. Remember, you need us more than we need you.

[ovalracer44]

- Drive all the Pintos off a cliff somewhere.

Wow thats funny. Especially when ministocks are faster than most V8 divisions at most tracks.

[Todd McCreary]

- Focus on the fans first. Racers, you all are fantastic, but you only see one side of the fence. Remember, you need us more than we need you.

while this is a good point, you're addressing the wrong people. you need to talk to the promoters about putting on "a show". before you can even talk about $5 or $10 or $20 tickets you have to put something on the track that people want to watch. this simple idea is lacking at far too many tracks that i go too.






Finally as much as i hate to admit the Don Nerone has a very valid point ... I too would prefer the 24 BEST cars around.

you think Don is getting "the 24 BEST cars"?

and the strange thing is, there's a lot of forms of racing and racetracks which have NO problem taking care of "16" extra competitors. i realize you don't get a chance to watch B-mains ( sometimes even D if you're doing a good job promoting ) very often down here so you might have forgotten about them.

and if you don't think watching 18 cars racing for 2 transfer positions is exciting, then i can't help you brother.

[Benny The Mule]

and if you don't think watching 18 cars racing for 2 transfer positions is exciting, then i can't help you brother.[/QUOTE]

I know exactly what you mean, problem is the promotors,sorry, (track owners) aren't doing anything to take care of the other 16 cars. As far as b-mains.oh ya i,ve seen some great racing. But you know money really does control the way racers think. A well promoted show will get guys to race like hell for tow money because they are after $5-10,000 not $1500 to win $300 for 2nd (win) money and a large purse all the way through the top 24 that make it. Throw a race like that in every month or 2 and your locals will support your weekly show. Drivers and fans.

And to Joe. Unless i was mistaken on your comment, the drivers don't need the fans more than they need us...the promoters need the fans, we are the show, and we need to put on the show......bottom line. That's that 2 way street i was talking about between drivers and tracks. 1 is useless without the other.


And i'm sorry #44 ministock, but the push all pintos off cliffs was funny! That is a class that has thoroughly run umuck. Back when i drove a ministock it WAS a pinto with a total of about $1500 in the WHOLE car. Now there are mod-minis that will run a half second faster than a bomber and most guys think they should be treated like latemodels. Get in the 3500 lb bomber and see how easy it is to drive. Minis are like big go-karts. I would think boneman would know.looks like he's driven a little bit of everything.