The Reason Carl Edwards Is Winning So Much

[Todd McCreary]

I am only hard on roush because he is hard on toyota.

as i said, when you're playing what amounts to a pure popularity contest game, aligning yourself with an entity that most of the crowd is against isn't the best way to go about winning.

most of Roush's complaints about Toyota amount to the fairly rich ( Roush ) complaining about the advantage that the stupendously rich ( Toyota ) have. if Ford or GM or Dodge could manage to turn a profit for a single quarter they might have a better chance of competing against Toyota as equals.

what's happening is really just an extension of the change that the "Team" concept that Jack helped bring to NASCAR. only Toyota has bucket loads more money and they're more effective at making every Toyota team a 'factory' team than the US companies.




So now toyota is to blame for their intelligence? They have not broken the spirit of any rules.

oh how quickly we forget. how long was Mikey negative in points last year?

[Benny The Mule]

[QUOTE=ovalracer44;6093]So now toyota is to blame for their intelligence? They have not broken the spirit of any rules. The camry is built in the USA.


When Kyle Bush won sun the said first FOREIGN nameplate since (whenever). so much for camrys built in US huh. I could care less, they all look the same to me, hype to try to get fans and sponsors back is all it is. I'm going to Martinsville here shortly for $30 ticket and i guarentee by green flag i'll be able to sit wherever i want. It really doesn't matter at Martinsville anyhow...you can see well from any spot you sit.

[dd38]

They are assembled here. All the parts are built in Japan and shipped here. That's how they get around the tariff tax. The profits all wind up back in Japan. Like one Japanise person said, We are going to take over America without firing a single shot.

[ovalracer44]

They are assembled here. All the parts are built in Japan and shipped here. That's how they get around the tariff tax. The profits all wind up back in Japan. Like one Japanise person said, We are going to take over America without firing a single shot.

Now this is about an ignorant statement If I have ever seen one.


They are still built here. That means people here have a job. Along with all the people honda, BMW and several other foreign companies that have relocated some part of their manufacturing to the USA.

The manufacturing of parts does not require as many people to work as it once did due to automation. But assembly still requires a great deal of people on the floor. Watch a show on discovery called how its made. Saw a clip on how paper cups are made. The only time a person was ever seen in the factory was the person who pulls samples and tests them.

Who cares where the profits end up. Where does GM and Fords profits go? Do you think someone from american companies are sitting on street corners handing out profits?

What will end up taking us over is our national debt, and thats not the Japanese, its the Chinese and several middle eastern countries from whom we have borrowed ourself right into the hole.

If the japanese are guilty of anything its of being smarter than us. They are more technologically advanced than we will probably ever be. This is due in part to the people in this country that do not put much support into the education system.

[Todd McCreary]

This is due in part to the people in this country that do not put much support into the education system.

now that's a crap statement if ever there was one.

the US spends far more per capita and per student than every other nation on the face of the planet. and they still come back every year and demand more money and accuse everyone of being 'against' education if they resist ponying up.

the problem with US education is the teachers unions and administrators and the 'socializing' fetish. you can use school to 'socialize' your children or you can use schools to educate. take your pick.

there's a reason why home schooled kids blow pub.ed. kids out of the water on college entrance exams and in college.

[ovalracer44]

Todd, read what I said, then read it again. Ask yourself where did I say anything about how much money we spend. Never did I say we do not spend enough on education, I merely stated that people do not support the education of their children. My girlfriend is a middle school art teacher. 99% of the students couldn't care less if they are there or not. The parents have about the same sentiment. 9 times out of 10 if she calls a parent about a students work habits the parents act like they aren't really concerned and they have more things to worry about. You are right, education starts at home.

As for teachers unions, Its a good and bad thing. A 20 year teacher with a 4 year degree now makes 51,000 a year in the Beaufort County School system. Starting pay for a teacher with a 4 year degree is 31,000, yet someone can graduate from high school, go through the police academy and start as a Beaufort City cop at 34,000. See a problem here? Can't get the good teachers if you don't pay. If you were willing to do your job right, would you put up with a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats for less than someone with a high school diploma?

There are a couple of things that do make our education system appear to cost more. One is bus systems. Not many countries have them . Thats why only the wealthy are educated, they can afford their own transportation or the country has better public transportation (i.e. trains, busses and subway systems). Second is not many countries have athletic programs, this eats up money in a hurry.

[john tenney]

LOL he said "art teacher"

I'll let you take this one Todd!

[ovalracer44]

Screw you Tenney. You think art is not an important class? Read a little history. The fall of the roman empire came when they took their emphasis off art and put it into sports. Go back in your own high school year book. Look at the kids that were big into band, chorus, drama, and art, then look at the kids that were big in sports. Unless they got lucky and went pro, the sports group are more likely to be the losers than the artistic group.

Oh yeah, my brother has Bachelor of Arts technical theater. Now does set design and construction for movies and commercials. Art is making him more money than the vast majority of blow hards on this forum.

[john tenney]

As a musician I am quite aware of the value of Art. It is however, not an essential life skill. It has intellectual and enjoyment value but I would hardly call it a survival skill, would you?

There is no reason for you to take what I said as a personal attack. It wasn't meant as such.

Incidentally, I found the music industry to be a cutthroat, backstabbing, belittling industry - to the point where Art no longer entered in to the equation.

It's important to remember that the words Artist and Entertainer often do not coincide!

[Todd McCreary]

Ask yourself where did I say anything about how much money we spend.

virtually everyone interested in the policy end of this ( especially the teachers unions ) conflates growth in public spending with "support of the education system".

so, by drawing a distinction between "funding" and "support" you demonstrate yourself to be more advanced than the vast majority of teachers, school administrators and libs. i congratulate you.

it still avoids the fact that those who are most successful at educating children are the ones who avoid the "system" altogether. or by ( usually ) male teachers who succeed by subverting or evading the "system" even though they teach in a school.



99% of the students couldn't care less if they are there or not.

having attended 4 different public schools for 10.5 years and 2 religious schools for the 2.5 year balance of my term in two different states ( Florida and Indiana ) i'm quite comfortable stating unequivocally that the curriculum and standards and methods of education in the US have a great deal to do with this.

it annoyed me to no end to be classified as "gifted" and then be told that the only thing suitable for "gifted" children to study was "art". the fact that the teachers used "gifted" class as an excuse to screw off with little to no oversight from admin didn't help any.

granted, i gradiated ( sic, yes, a joke ) high school in 85 and things seem to be somewhat different with magnet schools and AP programs. but that appears to be more than balanced by all the retarded things going on in the normal schools.

the fact that the vast majority of US pub.ed. students go on to get degrees in Liberal Arts while the majority of engineering and physics/hard science majors are either non-citizens or home schooled is enough of an indictment of "the system".

yes, could i have some more lawyers please? i don't think "knee deep" is deep enough. i'd like to change my eye color to brown.




My girlfriend is a middle school art teacher.

and like keyboarding ( do they even bother with typing classes now or have all the kids started popping out of the womb texting yet? ) or home ec her class is GPA or credit padding. i would expect it to attract more than it's fair share of students who are less than enthusiastic.




Unless they got lucky and went pro, the sports group are more likely to be the losers than the artistic group.

errr, your conditional "unless" doesn't mean what you think it means. both of your clauses are complimentary, not opposing.

it also ignores that lib arts classes and sports are approximately equivalent in their uselessness vis-a-vis the productivity or survival question. you're ignoring something here, i'll get back to it later.




my brother has Bachelor of Arts technical theater. Now does set design and construction for movies and commercials. Art is making him more money than the vast majority of blow hards on this forum.

conflating "pay" with "value" is a pretty serious error in and of itself. i certainly would never consider Britney Spears or Michael Jackson to be "indispensable" to society. she isn't even that hot any more since she lost what little mind she had.

it also ignores that the movie and entertainment business has managed to lobby laws and accounting methods that make almost all A&E income tax free to the corps which administer the 'artistic rights' which grossly inflates the salaries payed to those in the industry. IOW, they aren't playing on a field level with anyone else here.

good God, i'm glad we've got so many lib arts people around. how would i amuse myself otherwise? i'd be helpless if i had 150 channels of snow.




Starting pay for a teacher with a 4 year degree is 31,000, yet someone can graduate from high school, go through the police academy and start as a Beaufort City cop at 34,000. See a problem here?

nope. the cop works 12 months a year and could easily get killed in the line of duty. the fact that the job tends to attract more than it's fair share of overbearing and abusive twits is a different subject.

any teachers who have a 'problem' with their income levels usually go out and get summer jobs or run summer businesses in their annual 3 month vacation. i had quite a few of these who loved to spend class time talking about it. of course, bragging about their summer jobs was orders of magnitude better than the college prep trig teacher who spent a minimum of 20 minutes every class day whining about how bad Reagan was.

and besides, shouldn't you be complaining about your brother's salary here? he's the one making oodles more than a molder ( yes, this is also a joke ) and shaper of young minds.




If you were willing to do your job right, would you put up with a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled brats

lack of discipline in the home is primarily due to the education and discipline 'reforms' pushed by the likes of Dr. Spock and his ilk ( i'm part Scots, i can use that word ).

lack of discipline and disciplinary measures in the school was a precursor to, not the result of the lack of such things in the home. amusingly enough, with a lot of help from A&E / lib arts people such as your brother.

it's rather contradictory to blame the parents for doing what the education and entertainment systems "socialized" them to do, don't you think?



The fall of the roman empire came when they took their emphasis off art and put it into sports.

i think you'd better clarify here.

if by emphasis "into sports" you mean the bread and circuses of the coliseums, you're complaining about the shifting of emphasis from one form of entertainment ( traditional lib arts ) to another ( sports ). although i do approve of your condemnation of one of the basic tenets of marxism, 'free' food being foisted on the masses.

the whole focus on "entertainment" is flawed from it's foundation. as can be seen from your failure to consider the group of students ( neither arty nor sporty ) which actually has the greatest impact on societal productivity.

[john tenney]

I had to consult a dictionary 6 times in that post - that's a new record!!!

LOL Todd I knew you would have an intellectual elitist answer

Incidentally, this is quite a thread creep from Carl Edwards cheating on his oil reservoir ...

[dd38]

Well said Todd.

[ovalracer44]

Hey Todd, you make a lot of points I used to try to make. After she became a teacher I soon realized why the turnover rate is so high. A cop works his shift, goes home and thats it. Teachers dont get to just drop their jobs when they walk out the door. Lesson plans, grading, faculty meetings, parent/teacher conferences(atleast one a week), continuing education classes add to their time. Most schools have gone to a year round system, which leads to no summer breaks. The most off is 6 weeks. Teachers are always required to take continuing education classes, that usually screw up any kind of summer break. Oh and they have to do that out of pocket. Have you checked on any college curriculum class prices lately. One class can be an easy couple grand. A cop didnt have to spend 30 grand or more on a college education to do what he does. Educators do.

There is a ton of money wasted on the education system, but there is not enough money where it needs to be. Im probably the most recent high school graduate on here. I graduated in 2001. I saw where a lot of things could be improved. Yes I do feel arts classes are a necessary skill. The creativeness that is developed has been a skill I use more often than others.


What Im basically getting at here is the teachers that care to do their jobs well and put the proper emphasis into educating the children, can not afford to do so, because there would be no time for that summer or after school job. Therefore they can not afford to live on what the teacher salaries in the area here are. Im sorry but 34,000 a year with student loans to pay back is not enough to live in anything above upper-lower class. Therefore we are left with the dregs of the teacher force that could care less to properly educate the children. Oh yeah, teachers seem to be getting killed a lot too. death threats are not uncommon towards teachers, yet its treated differently than a police officer. A kid threatens a teacher and they get suspended for a day. What happens if a kid threatens a cop?

[Todd McCreary]

I had to consult a dictionary 6 times in that post - that's a new record!

Liability Disclaimer for John Tenney:
Please install your HANS device and tighten your oil reservoir lid before reading any posts by Todd McCreary. Any injuries suffered without taking these precautions will be the legal responsibility of the party of the second part.










you make a lot of points I used to try to make.

i'm not "trying". take that either way you want, both work.





There is a ton of money wasted on the education system, but there is not enough money where it needs to be.

and? so?

if there is plenty of money wasted on the system but it's in the wrong places why are you haranguing us about this?

shouldn't you be after school admins for spending money in the wrong places? shouldn't you be after the political class for demanding things like sex ed for kids who won't hit puberty for 6 years? call me crazy.






Have you checked on any college curriculum class prices lately. One class can be an easy couple grand.

that's what you get when you permit the .gov to artificially prop up college tuition via education loans and grants.

are you going to tell me she was out there demonstrating against raising public funding for education?

sorry, i forgot. when you major in lib arts you don't believe in market forces you feel like they're a figment of capitalists imaginations. it's in the rule book.




Im sorry but 34,000 a year with student loans to pay back is not enough to live in anything above upper-lower class.

she knew what the entry level pay scales were before she chose her major.

she knew what the price of the courses were before she signed up for them.

perhaps if she had taken a few more ( free ) high school math, accounting or econ classes she'd have noticed the future difficulties inherent in choosing a profession which has such high barriers to entry and such a low ROI?

oh i forgot, an education in the arts prepares you to be logical, rational and forward thinking.

i will grant you that a degree in education is more useful than one in archeology. i once worked with a chick who had her degree in that.




Therefore we are left with the dregs of the teacher force that could care less to properly educate the children.

i have a question.

does she ever get tired of you telling her that she's the "dregs of the teacher force that could care less"? or are you so used to her saying these things about herself that you haven't bothered to think about what it is that she's saying?

i know, i know, it's all those OTHER teachers who suck. funny how all of them use the same argument though. makes you wonder where this one teacher is that all of these insults apply too.

even if we find that one guy, it still doesn't explain why all of the people with four year degrees in education get so easily outperformed by a couple of parents with a high school diploma.




Most schools have gone to a year round system

huh, wha? where is this? i know Fla and Ind both still do summer break. except for "Summer School" classes, for which the teachers receive extra pay.




Oh yeah, teachers seem to be getting killed a lot too.

say WHAT! no, i don't think so Willis. you're going to have to provide multiple references before i believe that teachers are getting killed "in the line of duty" even one tenth ( for the curious, that would be a "decimation", in the original, Latin meaning ) as often as cops. i'm even considering letting you compare raw numbers as opposed to normalizing to a per capita rate.

in fact, i bet the percentage of teachers sleeping with their students is higher than the percentage of teachers getting killed by their students. you keep the key to her chastity belt at home, right?





death threats are not uncommon towards teachers

hint: threats are not equivalent to murder attempts. i also wonder about your definition of "uncommon".

further, it is the education system itself which has chosen to excise all disciplinary forms which could effectively deal with these ( attempts at physical intimidation ) problems. why would it trouble me that they now have to deal with the easily foreseeable issues that their own decisions have permitted to arise?




What happens if a kid threatens a cop?

he gets shot? no, this has to be a trick question....




Incidentally, this is quite a thread creep from Carl Edwards

i'm actually beginning to wonder if he's intentionally throwing these bizarre irrelevant statements into the thread just to see what he can stir up.



ps - hyperlinks for difficult words provided for John Tenney.

[john tenney]

ROFL - thanks for the hyperlinks Todd