Bronson Speedway Open Wheel Modified Rules

[Winger]

There are some definite advantages to using a radio. It's great for a new driver to get instruction from a seasoned driver/spotter. I've heard that done and think it's great. I've heard spotters suggest trying a different line and that's fine. More often, I hear spotters warning of someone trying to pass low, i.e.: protect the bottom. Basically telling the driver to block. Often hear a spotter, usually a father, telling his driver not to let so and so get away with that. I've heard spotters telling their driver to ignore the official or a flag. Many times actually. I've also had some of my greatest entertainment listening to conversations between spotter/crew and drivers.
I think radios can be a great tool if used properly. I think many use them as a crutch and many use them for blocking.

BTW, in other parts of the country drivers do make a career of short track racing. Purses aren't ridiculously low as they have been in Florida for a long time. And most of those tracks don't allow radios for their regular Saturday night programs. Also, a lot of tracks, particularly dirt tracks, don't allow mirrors either.

[Bigbuck]

[QUOTE=UREZ2PASS;79303]Spotter - go low
Driver - misses spinning car

Spotter - go high
Driver - misses debris or oil on track

Spotter - stop
Driver - misses streaking naked Obama supporter, OK, radio caused missed opportunity.

So I can get out of this debate, I agree no radios.[/QUOTEthey keep supporting Obama everyone will be streaking! We won't be able to afford clothes.

[MW68SS]

The time it takes the spotter to recognize the situation and then relay the info to the driver and for him to hear the spotter then react to it is of no use to the driver because he is already in the middle of it or its far enough out in front of them they don't need to be told what happened.
A couple of years ago the UDLMCS went to PGS and raced on asphalt. 22 cars 50 laps Green flag the whole way turning 14.5's and no one had a radio or mirror.I just don't see where they are that important.

[modracer22]

I have not been racing for 35 years but I did start when most didn't use radios. I will say that it was nice to finally get to be able to use them and they have save me more times then I can count from wrecking my car. If the guy is blocking either man up and go to the outside which you don't see much of that or use the chrome horn to move him which I see a lot of that. I much rather be told that someone on my inside and not come down on the guy then not have that info and destroy my car and maybe his. From reading the rules it's going to be hard to get a lot of guy's at the first show but who knows it might just catch on. Just another track that doesn't want anybody traveling or any new cars.

[openwm53]

benny

Excuse for lack of talent is Bull. Almost every late model driver and mod driver in florida use radios. Its there option. Are they all wrong? As far as blocking goes. The men driving know exactly how to take care of that and the boys will figure it out. The point is another track is trying to change the rules in the middle of the game and thats the problem. citrus, A-dale,desoto,P.G., all have the same rules so why in the hell would bronson open the door shooting themselves in the foot. And someone mentioned that radios cant be used on a bull ring thats bull itself. My spotter may tell me wreck in three before I ever see a yellow. and in 7 seconds im there. Yes when wrecks happen in front of me he cannot get words out fast enuff thats when us untalented drivers commit in a split second. Oh and by the way most of us drivers who dedicate our time,money,blood ,sweat and tears can give a rats ass what they do up north or antwere else. We want the same rules at OUR tracks so we have the option to support them when we want. And if you want to know who I am , my name is Doug Miller only been racing since 03 in a mod with and without radios.

[Iwyn]

MW68SS NO radio / mirror support

MW68SS is 100% correct stating "A couple of years ago the UDLMCS went to PGS and raced on asphalt. 22 cars 50 laps Green flag the whole way turning 14.5's and no one had a radio or mirror. I just don't see where they are that important." Radios and mirrors only multiply problems continuously in many ways.
Apparently most all those saying they need radios and mirrors never learned to be a race car driver without them and know how much it will help dial in their extra senses thus they have no experience or knowledge to speak from. You learn far more without such crutches and you will be a far better and quicker driver I assure you. Some claim they need them due to needing to know what the other non-talented drivers are doing. Welllll you just described your abilities and which category you fit in since your talents are still arrested and under developed. You have no need of a spotter to tell you if a car is on your inside or outside if you have developed the senses fully. If you need a spotter to tell you what is in front of you and where to go the you need a replacement in the seat, PERIOD ! If you are that blinded to what is in front of you then you have your equipment in the wrong place as you do not have any options in what you can or can not do. Again why do the same drivers always run in the front and all the same others are mid pack and back? Good drivers do not generally get their cars in bad locations on the track ! That is why they are there at the end in most races.
Without radios or mirrors you just develop additional senses that are seen at races weekly all over the country. You do not ever learn those with radios or mirrors period if you want to be good !
Drivers driving with no radio or mirror learn to focus more on what is in front of them and let their senses feed their other input needs. You will know more about what is going on around you that way than you ever will any other way. Behind you is history !
With no radio or mirror you develop the extra senses that blind people develop. You will know where another race car is by feel of the vibrations, sounds from their exhaust and and senses of other things around you that will focus in intensely.
If all drivers know the other drivers do not have radios or mirrors they do not put their equipment in the wrong places as they know that driver can not see them and since he is in front of them the groove he is running is his and up to the driver in the rear to find another groove to go around if they want to pass.
If a driver can not develop these talents without a radio or mirror then they need to seriously look at putting a driver in the car that can develop those talents.
As stated before the fastest short track race cars in the country are not allowed radios or mirrors and do not even want them associated with their racing. If you do not think so listen to what Kasey Kahne , Carl Edwards , Tony Stewart, Clint Boyer and others that came from such racing say about radios and mirrors in short track race cars. They still race their short track race cars without radios or mirrors for a reason. That is to help keep those senses they developed years ago sharpened as it helps them now as it did then.
Radios and mirrors were not allowed in race cars till the advent of NASCAR type races. Then it developed more as needs of notifying drivers of pit stop times and such data due to the distance from the pit crews to the drivers. As time developed it became useful on other on track notices that were helpful due to the distances between race cars and crews as blocking was a very limited resource since if a car could catch you then it would pass you. Eventually it developed as a tool for serious blocking and on rare occasions for wrecking incident warnings. Watch the races even today on TV and listen to the spotters trying to help drivers avoid wreck situations. Most times the drivers are already in the wreck before he can even hear a spotter tell them what is happening and these guys are the Pros ! How is the Weekend Warrior going to compete on that lever of awareness and correctness ? It's never going to happen in most situations!
There is no reason why any other short track classes have any need of radios or mirrors as those classes are partially meant to let drivers spend time racing to learn ALL the talents of being a fully rounded race car driver and not to depend on someone in their ear telling them what is going on in front or back of them. They need to learn how to use those extra senses they are born with if wanting to be a talented driver. If they have the talent they will pick up those additional driving helps that make a good fully rounded race driver and if you do not learn them you are only 1/2 way to being as good as you can be.
Sure if I am driving in a class where a radio or mirror is allowed I want them too ! I assure you the use is not so I know when or where a wreck is happening as there are to many other benefits of having them and the most benefits of them is definitely not for safety reasons! If safety is your concern then most tracks now use the RaceCeivers and the officials have full ability of warning drivers if need be as effectively as a spotter. Also what is a driver trying to do with a spotter talking in the ear and an official shouting in another ear. The driver just drove into the wreck trying to decide which advice to take and listen to !
Watching you in the mirror as I squelch in the darn radio !
Darn I did not see that car spun in the turn I just T Boned while I was looking in the mirror and fooling with the radio !
This multitasking we think we have to do nowadays will get you in trouble every time !

[Benny The Mule]

Excuse for lack of talent is Bull. Almost every late model driver and mod driver in florida use radios. Its there option. Are they all wrong? As far as blocking goes. The men driving know exactly how to take care of that and the boys will figure it out. The point is another track is trying to change the rules in the middle of the game and thats the problem. citrus, A-dale,desoto,P.G., all have the same rules so why in the hell would bronson open the door shooting themselves in the foot. And someone mentioned that radios cant be used on a bull ring thats bull itself. My spotter may tell me wreck in three before I ever see a yellow. and in 7 seconds im there. Yes when wrecks happen in front of me he cannot get words out fast enuff thats when us untalented drivers commit in a split second. Oh and by the way most of us drivers who dedicate our time,money,blood ,sweat and tears can give a rats ass what they do up north or antwere else. We want the same rules at OUR tracks so we have the option to support them when we want. And if you want to know who I am , my name is Doug Miller only been racing since 03 in a mod with and without radios.

I stand by my statement..........sprint cars, dirt latemodels and dirt mods do it without radios or mirrors. If you can't race without a radio it is pathetic...if you prefer a radio, that is another topic.

Stop trying to justify radios as a necessity, because they are NOT.

My entire racing background is in Fla as i only moved away a few years ago to the carolinas and i am still in Fla every speedweek.

And it's really pathetic to demand a track to have specific options in case YOU decide you might want to visit that track!

It really doesn't matter who you are.

[ocalasp76]

Last year was my first time racing at a track that allowed radios and mirrors in Sportsman. Didn't have money for radios, and my wife would be the spotter. I won't go into details but she would make a lousy spotter. Hell, using a cell phone is a challenge to her.(I'm a dead man if she ever reads this).
I have mirrors in the OWM I drive now,however, I only use it to see who is behind me in a caution. My eyes don't focus fast enough to look in a mirror and back at the track(hello wall). I rely on my hearing and a quick look left to see if there is a nose by my door. If no nose, then I continue my line. If my motor starts to 'harmonize' with another cars motor, then I know someone is close.
Very simple for me for the last ten years and I'm too old to change my ways. I seem to have more tire marks on the right side of the car(at the door) and not the left. You drivers know what that means I'm sure.
So if they do or don't allow mirrors or radios...I really don't care...
But setting rules that are different from all the other tracks...that's a car count killer right there....JMHO
-JIM-

[openwm53]

Iwin

Alot of what you say makes sence to me. Never took radios as a crutch but more of the norm. But I would like to say that just last nite I asked my spotter during a caution who was behind me. and yes as you say that is history. But by doing so I new exactly what to expect from the man behind me . I new that after a half lap i could try the outside of the car in front of me without pressure. well at least for a couple laps. You might say that one position isnt much but points racing it is. I will give you that alot of drivers may do exactly what there spotters say but I personally dont think the majority does at least not in the short tracks I run. I have no mirror and my spotter may tell me clear low or car low but its myself who makes that decision and yes if i feal that its clear. I have a good friend who doesnt use radios at all . he's been racing 25 years and has alot of wins and a few championships. His car has a great field of view and he has mirrors. unfortunatly the newer built mods are tight and not a great field of view. I think radios have there place in modern short track racing but thats my opinion. But i will say again you make great points. would like to discuss further over a few beers and maybe you could teach my stubborn but a few things.

[Benny The Mule]

Let me add after Jim's post that i DO agree with the track should stay within the realm of other tracks on the car rules.

This thread went in a different direction.

Not going to a track because they don't ALLOW radios is sad and that mentality will surely be the demise of the sport.

Openwheel53,

I'm not picking on you and some may have taken some comments personally, but, i have on track horror stories i dealt with over the years due to USE OF RADIOS!

Way too much to go into on here. I never used them but they cost me loads of trouble in the past.

[openwm53]

Exactly my point benny

And i dont speak for just myself. I think most of the short track drivers just want the same rules. so they have the oppurtunity to visit other tracks. do you like that better. And I have done my part for this sport since I started racing. Excuse for lack of talent B.S.

[openwm53]

HuH

Im sorry for that. Not sure how radios could hurt unless the car owner is on there telling the driver what to do and how to act. Like i said in previous post a good friend and i have this discussion all the time. He beats me on the track and I beat him..........anyhow nothing personal .....and jim I always liked the way two motors harmonize

[GRIMM25]

Last night at Citrus, I was put in the wall coming off turn 4 after racing on the outside of a driver for 2 laps and when I asked the other driver what happened he said, "His spotter didn't tell him there was someone on the outside."
I drove my heat race and the feature and didn't touch a car without radios up until the wreck. I personally don't mind if we use them or not but it seems other drivers need them to help drive their cars.

LJ GRIMM #25

[UREZ2PASS]

Lots of opinions and even some good facts presented. I'm looking forward to watching the first OWM race at Bronson without radios. It may be the recipe for some good racing and it may be a crashfest. One thing for sure, it won't take long to see the results. They might have the recepie for a Florida Madhouse. It would be good for our sport.

[ronabneysr]

do the drivers that don't like radios

what do you think about in door plumbing -- or did it take a while to get use to it -------- i heard some one say we didn't have radios 20 years ago -- right and you was not going half as fast as they are going today

i ain't gonna get in pi$$ing contest radios or no radios if you can pass robbie cooper - or curtis newman on out side or L b skaggs and they all got radios in there cars and they are wide open down back straight away bumper to bumper and all of a sudden there is a wanna be running 40 miles and and hour spins out and is coming cross track in front of leaders now with no radios going be hellavu crash with radios crash go high now ever body running in fast lane get by now from next 6 cars got there shi% tore u

now one more for radio haters get in your personal car put on a hans device -- helment then seat belts and put five people in back seatnow leave tampa fl at 9 am saturday morning no mirrows no radios and set cruze control at 60 mph and drive in middle lane when you have change lanes just snatch it over don't even look you ought to be able to see there front tire and hear them

i was not trying to be funny but ask erick rudd / tony carreno bet you ever one that runs up front uses a radio and they don't use it to drive like ron hornady or mirrow drive it is 100% safer