A Racing Question!!!!

[Osmosis Jones]

Here it is.

As previously requested, I'm posting a real question about racing here in Flourdough. It's something that has bugged me for years now.

I just have one special caveat that needs to be met by potential posters to this thread.
Doing that's okay, right?....I mean, it's okay to make a post and then tell people how, when and in what vernacular to respond? Right?

Because the answer is gonna require someone who owns or has owned, races or has raced, has/still works on or has followed Late Model racing here in Fl for quite a while.

Someone who can post their opinion on this topic with the knowledge that comes from experience and the depth of conviction that comes from having that knowledge.

Someone who won't be compelled to post the first thing that pops into her...er, their heads, thereby causing confusion and muddling the thread's initial question so thoroughly that it will be hopelessly derailed like 95% of the threads on here.

In other words no drama laced, FANatical replies that are based on irrelevant hearsay and an over-active imagination.

Here goes:
Could someone please explain to me the HOW, WHEN, WHY and WHO behind the decision to start calling "Late Models"...."SUPER" Late Models.
And while I'm asking.....how can a track less than a half mile in length tout themselves as a "SUPER" SPEEDWAY?

Okay then...let's get crazy.

[ocalasp76]

For fear of being flamed by some race 'fan' who has his own idea and ready to jump on someone whom he considers a moron and giving false information, I decline to answer the first question.
Now the second question. As I was told,face to face by a 'cup' driver, a Super Speedway is one that is 1 mile or longer. All else are considered a short track. Unless they don't have any turns and come to an abrupt halt, they are then a 'drag strip'....JMO(disclaimer)
-GEM-

[Boneman]

Oh, oh I know the answer, but I don't meet the criteria to respond. Hmmm...maybe I can jump in after the thread gets hopelessly hijacked!

Top 10 Ways to Hijack a Thread on KARNAC

1 Ask everyone for $10
2 Start an arguement with Don Nerone
3 Share some Thanksgiving receipes
4 Blame FASCAR for something
5 Point out the typos
6 Demand some apologies
7 Remind everyone that its not how we do it up north
8 "Car Warz vs Crash A Rama", a group symposium
9 Start wishing everyone a happy birthday
10 Put up a stupid Top 10 list

[JackTripper]

I always took "super late model" to be a clear distinguisher that you were going to see the high dollar 9:1 compression motors competing, but that's kind of gone by the wayside.

Why one track in particular around here calls itself "super" is beyond me...

[Winger]

At the risk of taking the question seriously, let me expand it just a little. For both dirt and asphalt, what makes a late model a "super" late model? At Ocala last week, I had someone from the mid-west ask me why we don't race "Super" late models in Florida. I have a feeling definitions may vary by location. I guess I consider the dirt "Super" Late Model one that runs with the WoO or Lucas series, but I'm not sure Florida's rules prohibit them from running regularly.

[Don Nerone]

Matt
When we came of the LLM rule in Fl and went more of a open car i did the name change for the fans to know the differance between SLM and LLM.
SLM 600+ hp 4b cab 2700 lb
LLM 400 hp 2b carb 3000 lb (at that time)
Then came ASA Slow model. in dirt the diff was the open alum 430 engine.
Every one trying to sale tickets.
A reg race or a SUPER RACE .

Don62

[Marty Little]

A Racing Queston

I'm probably violating the conditions of this reply, but here goes. There is little in our sport that bothers me more than the term "super late model." I do agree with Don that it was done to distinguish the former limited late models from the "real" late models and may have been born out of disdain for the word "limited", but I hate it and refuse to use it. Guess its my old school thought process. Was nothing wrong with "limited late model" for the second tier division but it evolved to "sportsman" at some tracks and eventually just "late model."

As for the word "super" being added to a track's name, simply a promotional ploy to lure fans. DeSoto not alone in this regard as the quarter-mile oval in Slinger, WI is called Slinger Super Speedway. And as for a track over 1 mile being considered a super speedway, I disagree. The tracks over a mile but less than two miles are considered intermediate tracks. Two miles and up super speedways.

[Osmosis Jones]

Thanks guys....

Ask and ye shall receive.

Hey Don...I remember when we called them "Sportsman Outlaws" for a short time at Desoto but then we got back to calling them Late Models around 86, I think....I don't think I ever really heard the term "Limited Late Model" used too much until the 90's....but that's also about the time that everybody seemed to want to rename every one of the lower divisions that ran at their respective tracks to more "media friendly" names. This was also about the time we started coming up with too many classes of cars that were almost identical to each other running on the same programs on the same night. I mean, how many entry level classes do you really need?

Used to be pretty simple, didn't it....at any given track you had Late Models, Street Stocks, Bombers and Mini Stocks. Now there are four or five versions of each one which makes it pretty much impossible for the average Joe in the grandstands to distinguish a difference between them. I always figured the ones that were into it enough to really understand the differences underneath the body panels were pretty much NOT the average fan off the street, anyways.

I sure do miss the old days, dude.

Marty Little....if anyone was ever qualified to answer questions about historical events in Florida Late Model racing, it's you. My "caveat" actually was just me being the sarcastic jerk that I am and it was intended for a pretty specific, target audience. Sorry, you felt like you had to defend your post. My bad.
And without blowing even more wind up your skirt (or pantleg), I am in 100%, total agreement with you on your entire post.
You, sir......are the man.


And yeah, Don.....yer pretty smart, too..........(long pause for effect).....lol

[Marty Little]

A Racing Question

Osmosis, it was a great two part question and hit a big nerve with me and I knew where you were going but thought I'd toss my two cents worth in anyway. You being sarcastic? Say it ain't so and thanks for the nice words.

[Jimmy McKinley]

In the '70s, when we ran at Hialeah and Palm Beach, there was Late Models, Hobby Cars, Cyclones, and Mini Stocks. The "Hobby Cars" evolved into one of two divisions: the "new" Limited Late Models, and the older-bodied cars turned into Thunder Cars.

In the '80s, we started running at St. Pete, Bradenton, and Tampa (Golden Gate). We had Late Models, Thunder Cars, Super Sixes, and STOCK (well, more stock than they are now...LOL) Mini Stocks. The "Thunder Cars" then split into two groups/divisions: Outlaws (after an incident at St. Pete one night....long story...LOL) and Street Stocks/Pure Stocks. Over there, on the west coast, there wasn't a "Limited" Late Model class. At the time, we thought that was just a New Smyrna/Orlando thing after Palm Beach closed. We were still running a "Late Model".

Then, someone, somewhere, came up with "Sportsman". To me, that class (at the time, I'm thinking early to mid-'90s, maybe?) was just an older-bodied Limited Late Model. Then again, a LLM looked to me just like a SLM; I couldn't tell the difference just by looking at the two. Only way I *could* tell was by lap times on the track and if the announcer (if I could hear 'em) stated so.

In my opinion, classes should be differentiated not only by weight/motor/tires, but also by what they wear on the outside (body style). If you have two or three classes that *look* the same (same type of body), the average (or even first-time) fan won't be able to tell the difference. He'll ask something along the lines of "Why are these cars different than the ones that just ran?" And if you have to go into something like, "Well, this class runs a 13:1 motor with a 4-barrel carb, weighs 2700 pounds, runs 10" tires, and 54% left side weight, but that class runs a 2-barrel carburetor, a 9:1 motor, 8" tires, weighs 2900 pounds, has a full-perimeter frame, and 52% left side weight"...well, then, they'd get confused very quickly.

While we're at it, get rid of "Super Stock" as well as Limited Late Model. Four or five very different classes is enough. Late Models, Sportsman, Mini Stock, and maybe like Strictly Stock. If you're running a Limited Late Model, either move up to Late Model, or down to Sportsman. If you're running Super Stock, either move up to Sportsman, or drop down to Strictly/Pure Stock.

On another note, them mid-'70s to early-'80s V-8 powered rear-wheel drives are becoming scarce. Start allowing some of the newer types of powerplants (electronic fuel injected, tuned-port, etc.) in Strictly Stock (maybe they are already, I don't know the rules of the class). It may get to the point where Strictlys need to split into "Performance" (like "tuner" type foreign cars, if there is such a thing as "foreign" any more...) and "non-performance" cars.

[larrytg]

are you suggesting

that califragilisticexpialidocious is descriptive enough?
Are you supersensitive with the terminology supermodified or superstock?
In the USA (former superpower) one can drive a supercharged supercar (after filling up with super) down the superhighway to the superdome to watch the superstars play in the superbowl. Or watch it on a superstation sponsored by Superkmart and fast food restaurants that will supersize your meal. Whats the problem?


Hey we gotta call em sumpthin.............

[Osmosis Jones]

What a superlative response......

I like it......

........Superman.

[FLMOD12]

I agree with Jimmy. Way to many class'. 4 or 5 is plenty

[Bigbuck]

What is venacular and caveat?

[Osmosis Jones]

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

vernacular......it's veRnacular. Make sure you include the r when you look it up. Not sure but it might make a difference.

Just click on the link.

Then type in the word.....with the right spelling.

Okay....then you have to read the definition.

See how easy it is?