Would YOU come back?

[flvideo]

Hey Andy.

You bring up some valid points in your post. We do need to attract new fans all the time, and we also need to keep the ones we also have coming back.
I don't want to seem Bias, but I guess I am. I have been around this sport an awful long time and I have seen people come and go. Both fans and racers. All tracks have a base from which to draw from racers and fans. My observations over these years is that any track, no matter where they are located, that keeps their drivers happy are succesfull. If you have the racing and its good the people will come. There are enough people to fill the stands in all of our tracks. If you put on a good show the fans will hear about it. Here comes the marketing. You have to get the word out that you have a good show each and every week and keep that in front of the public. In these 55+ years in this sport I have seen very few even attempt to accomplish this goal. They make rules and they change them, they have favorites and they favor them. They cut their purse all the time. they seem to try and make it as difficult as they can for the racers. Then when their drivers quit or go somewhere else they wonder where they all have gone. Now the bias, bobby at CCMP does the best I have ever seen to make these things happen. He really trys to make the drivers happy. He trys to make his fans happy. His employees are glad to come to work, there is a good work environment and there for the most part things run smooth. Is he perfect? NO! Does he Make mistakes? YES! BUT, in all these years of being around race promotors Bobby is the only one that learns from his mistakes. He is honestly is trying to run CCMP the way it should be run. Constructive critisism is good for anyone in any game. I just regret that this couple from PA had to be here when we had a few debacles. We really had a good night of racing last week. There were a lot of cautions. You can't help that. The track was moist all night. Every time a car went off the track water was thrown up on the track and the broom crew had to sweep off the water and that took excessive time. I made the comment to a fellow worker Sat that we had a pretty good night with only backbone classes running. I still believe that we did regardless. Could we have done netter? Probably. Should we have called for rain? Possibly, but thats Monday morning Quarterbacking.
I do hope the ones that read this and are contemplating a trip to CCMP don't let this post sway them. If you read all this God Bless you and thank you. Bob...

[Jane]

If you took to heart every bad post on this board about all the tracks, people would never go to any of them and that is the truth. Tracks do the best they can do in today's world and we all have screw ups. Yes, I would have lower the admission because the main reason people went was because of the sprints but that is me not anyone else.

As for getting new fans, we need the old fans to bring friends, family, a kid who has never been to the races and hope they love it enough to come back. I worked with Racers Against Drugs for quite a few years. They go to local schools in Brevard County with racecars and drivers. The kids love it and usually we gave out free tickets for them and their families to come and see those racecars run. We would give out 500 tickets and maybe 10 would come because they could not get their parents to take them.

I always thought we needed to get a bus and just bring the kids and they would get hooked and then would hook their family and you would have new fans and new racers for the future. But parents today don't seem to want to take their kids to places they want to go, too busy with their own lives I guess and it is hard.

Alot of people misunderstand racing and think it is a bunch of red neck drunks who enjoy watching cars go around in circles which is far from true. But we have to work on that and prove that is far from true. That is what Andy does, and Dave, and me and all the writers out there. We have to make it where they want to come and see what all the writing and excitement is about. It is not easy but every track needs to have a writer who makes people want to come and see what you are writing about.

Getting fans is an age old problem and every track will have some unhappy spectators no matter what. But like I said, if we go along with everything we read, no one would go to a race ever again. Sometimes we are our worst promoters ourselves even though that is not our intention.

I am sorry this family had such a bad time but I am sure there are good times at Charlotte just like every track has good times and bad times. If I went along with everything that has been written over the years on racing in Florida, I would not even be involved in it but I am and I love it and I will do everything I can to help promote it.

But that is my 2 cents and that is about all it is worth today. Have a good weekend wherever you go, whatever you do. Me, I am going racing at Volusia and having a ball.

Jane

[Winger]

It may have been a bad night but, to answer Jerry's question, I wouldn't go back. To many people on here are making excuses and not listening to what some real experienced race fans are saying. These fans have seen racing all over the country and they didn't like what they saw here. That's all they said and explained why. Bob (flvideo) apologizes for a few debacles but says "We really had a good night of racing last week." I respect Bob but this statement tells me that long time Florida race fans may be satisfied with mediocrity. Fans that come from elsewhere are disappointed in Florida's racing. With all the "transplants" in Florida, tracks should be packed every week. What is keeping these people away? Why don't people come back? We have been told many times but, apparently, we choose to ignore to listen. Again, someone has given some very valid reasons and people are choosing to ignore.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

Alot of yappin going on, but the advise about keeping the current fans was the best I have heard...THEN work on new fans... Like Jane says... get every fan to bring a friend (as in someone who has never been to a race before). I have brought people to a certain track and they were let in as guest just to introduce them to racing, other times, I have sent people to a certain track, called ahead and the track put the tickets on my tab.
FIdeo Bob... I had a bit of a problem with your statement..........
BUT, in all these years of being around race promotors Bobby is the only one that learns from his mistakes

Thats a slam dunk statement. Its saying ALL other promotors DON"T (or haven't) learned from their mistakes - pretty broad statement. We know you are sticking up for the track, but all said.. those visiting folks have valid reasons for their views...can't defend facts.
It sure isn't a fair shake when you advertise a certain show for X Dollars and then put on a "Lesser" show without some consideration to the customers. Sounds like a bad business deal to me and I (for another) would not return to said track if it happened to me. Burn me once - Shame on YOU - Burn me twice - Shame on ME (and that ain't happening)

[Frasson118]

Studies have shown that the human attention span is maxed out in around 3 hours. Anything more than that, they start to lose interest. Putting on a 5-1/2 hour event is far too long. Then, they try to spin it as "giving people their moneys worth". You might be fooling yourselves, but you're not fooling your customers. As soon as you see parents carrying sleeping children out of there, your just lost an entire family of customers... they WON'T be back anytime soon, if ever. If they do, it will probably be without the kids (and don't we all agree that's the group we MOST need to get involved?)

There are a bunch of little things that could be done differently, that don't even require 1 penny of investment. So many things went wrong that it became a rotten experience, and they bring up some damn good points:

Why does it take 5-7 laps to "warm tires" before getting a green flag?

Who could possibly enjoy a 50 lap, 9 car Thunder Truck race? If the car count isn't there, reduce the amount of laps, or maybe run Twin-25's.

Why continue to allow a certain few drivers stink up the show by constantly spinning, crashing someone else, bringing out cautions on purpose, or refusing to line up where they are supposed to. If there were time limits, the class would police itself to some extent. The 1 or 2 clowns that ruin it for everyone else, WILL get talked to by fellow racers.

If a class can't get their shit together in 20 minutes, what makes you think they'll have it together in 45 minutes?

Why must the field make an more laps under caution than needed? Have a backstretch flagman give the sign that the green will come out on the front straight. If every caution was reduced by even one single lap, the whole program would be done sooner.

There is NO need to interview the top 3 after every race. If you do, have a remote announcer doing it from the pits or the infield... not holding up other races to do it. If I was in a class that got cancelled because of the curfew, and knowing that 30 minutes of the night had been wasted on driver interviews, I'd be completely pissed off. I paid just as much to get in as the Bandalero racers, but they got to race & I didn't.

8 or 10 classes is a complete joke. Sometimes I think these Promoters should be forced into sitting through 1 of their own shows, start to finish. Half of them would want to blow their brains out by intermission time.

This isn't Nascar... we don't need 5 laps of caution for a single-car spin.

Flagmen that throw a caution flag as soon as a car gets sideways, should be taken out back and shot. Even better, do it right there so I can SEE them getting shot. Far too many times, the situation corrects itself, and there was never a need for the yellow in the first place.

If there is dead time on the track, never let the P.A. system be silent during this time. This won't speed up a show, but it will keep people from checking their watches and realizing your intermission is way too long. Don't let boredom set in.


These are just a few of the things that could be done to save a show, and keep an audience's attention. As a Promoter, your job is to sell entetainment. If they get tired, bored or sick of hearing the kids whine about "is it over yet?", they will leave early, and will not be back. Give them something exciting for 3 hours, and send them home early and happy.

[ocalasp76]

Yup...

Good post Jerry.......
Also a know fact. Short term memory only last for about 45 seconds, so I had to read your story twice (I think)........LOL
See ya.
-GEM-

[Edm]

I don't think its fair to judge anyplace or anyone on one night. Everybody had a bad night once in a while. My favorite restaurant over cooked my steak the other night. Never mind every other time I have been it was perfect.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

I don't think its fair to judge anyplace or anyone on one night. Everybody had a bad night once in a while. My favorite restaurant over cooked my steak the other night. Never mind every other time I have been it was perfect.

Boy oh boy, I hate to admit it, but I agree with your statement. However, I think what Jerry was speaking about is what we seem to see over and over at tracks (some tracks more than others). Jerry stated some REAL issues that should be addressed in the effort to bring those fans back again and again.
EDM, you were at Ocala a few months ago... that show ran right along, fans got what they paid for and everyone got to race. Angie and Mike should host a seminar on how to operate a race track.

[Andy S]

Jerry - great post!

These are just a few of the things that could be done to save a show, and keep an audience's attention. As a Promoter, your job is to sell entetainment. If they get tired, bored or sick of hearing the kids whine about "is it over yet?", they will leave early, and will not be back. Give them something exciting for 3 hours, and send them home early and happy.

My absolute bugbear last year at OSW - which thankfully didn't happen as much at NSS - was the cars being able to get into restart order themselves, so they had to be stopped dead on the track and manually put into order by the track officials. Even then some of them couldn't figure it out, or broke the order they were given and had to start it all over again. Absolutely drove me wild, AND made the show look amateurish. I'd be interested to hear the driver's take on this when they get involved in it.

Much as I always want value for money, I found shows that went on for up to 4hrs or more, even in good weather, were a bit of a test, especially if one or two of the races weren't up to scratch. That's why I have no problems with the feature only format at the FASCAR tracks this year, as I'd rather see 2 1/2hrs of meaningful racing than 4hrs plus of the same cars and races that went nowhere.

[Winger]

Jerry - great post!



My absolute bugbear last year at OSW - which thankfully didn't happen as much at NSS - was the cars being able to get into restart order themselves, so they had to be stopped dead on the track and manually put into order by the track officials. Even then some of them couldn't figure it out, or broke the order they were given and had to start it all over again. Absolutely drove me wild, AND made the show look amateurish. I'd be interested to hear the driver's take on this when they get involved in it.

This is one of my biggest complaints also. This, imo, is a huge argument for raceceivers. Tracks that require them don't have this problem. You don't have (as many) drivers stopping to see why a call was made. They really speed a show up and they aren't that expensive. I can't see why all tracks don't require them. I had an official, at a track I photograph at, say they didn't want to pass the additional expense on to the drivers. I say they should be required and perhaps the track could provide a few rentals. [EDITED] I've seen wrecks that take 10 minutes to clean up and then another 5 minutes to get lined up correctly. As Todd points out, this could and should be done during the cleanup. I think a reason it isn't, may be to see who is able to continue racing in some cases. It shouldn't matter but some tracks seem to give cars back their positions.

Originally Posted by Edm
I don't think its fair to judge anyplace or anyone on one night. Everybody had a bad night once in a while. My favorite restaurant over cooked my steak the other night. Never mind every other time I have been it was perfect.

I agree with that statement Edm but the same issues seem to occur on a regular basis. Extra caution laps seem to be a regular occurrence at many tracks. Laps to warm up tires is a time eater that seems to be necessary at all asphalt tracks. (Except NASCAR after pit stops.) I don't understand why that is. Start times that are not at the scheduled time. Time spent lining cars up. Long intermissions. Drivers that stop on the track to argue with the officials. Driver interviews that take up time. Clean up crews that are incompetent or equipment that doesn't work. 3 or more laps to start a race after the cars enter the track. All of these occur at many tracks on a regular basis and aren't necessary and shouldn't be allowed.
I've been to tracks, that run 4 classes with 30 to 40 cars per class, start a show and end it in less than 4 hours (usually much less) on a weekly basis. Cars enter the track in turn 2 and take the green when they get to the flag man. When the race is over they get one lap to slow down and exit in turn one. In the meantime the next race is entering the track in turn 2. Wrecks are cleaned up as fast as possible with disabled cars being removed from the racing surface in the quickest way possible. One car causes 3 cautions and they are black flagged. Short intermissions. Feature winner interviews are short or, at some tracks, done in a special area so the next race can start.

Darn, I swore to myself that I wasn't going to post on this type of subject again. Oh well.

[Todd McCreary]

Have a backstretch flagman give the sign that the green will come out on the front straight.



while i agree this should be done, it's really unnecessary.

every driver should know that when the corner lights go off, the next time to the flag stand the race is on.



Even then some of them couldn't figure it out, or broke the order they were given and had to start it all over again. Absolutely drove me wild, AND made the show look amateurish. I'd be interested to hear the driver's take on this when they get involved in it.


maybe one warning, and then they should be booted off the track.

yes, this also pisses me off.



That's why I have no problems with the feature only format at the FASCAR tracks this year, as I'd rather see 2 1/2hrs of meaningful racing than 4hrs plus of the same cars and races that went nowhere.


a point that's been made before, but one that bears repeating.




Who could possibly enjoy a 50 lap, 9 car Thunder Truck race? If the car count isn't there, reduce the amount of laps


ditto with the previous statement.



The day time temperature had only reached 62 degrees so we knew it was going to be damp and cold this evening.
...
All this time the few hundred fans in attendence got colder and colder as the night went on.


i do not understand why winter shows are not scheduled for daylight hours on the weekends.

[Todd McCreary]

I've seen wrecks that take 10 minutes to clean up and then another 5 minutes to get lined up correctly. This is a huge argument for raceceivers


no it isn't.

it's an argument that the track management needs to get their act together and multi-task.

have one crew cleaning up the wreck and at the other end of the track ( CCMP is great for this as they have openings at both turn 1 and 4 ) put a corner worker out there lining the field up at the same time.

running the field repeatedly through a debris field under yellow and often interfering with the wreckers or sweeper crews is completely pointless anyways. may as well do something useful with the time.

[Winger]

I've seen wrecks that take 10 minutes to clean up and then another 5 minutes to get lined up correctly. This is a huge argument for raceceivers


no it isn't.

it's an argument that the track management needs to get their act together and multi-task.

have one crew cleaning up the wreck and at the other end of the track ( CCMP is great for this as they have openings at both turn 1 and 4 ) put a corner worker out there lining the field up at the same time.

running the field repeatedly through a debris field under yellow and often interfering with the wreckers or sweeper crews is completely pointless anyways. may as well do something useful with the time.

I agree completely with you Todd. I had edited my post and the raceceiver comment came out wrong. However, raceceivers will speed a show up that has had a quick caution come out, and could go green right away. Of course the scorers need to be able to tell race control who goes where in a timely manner. Ahhhh, another issue.
I don't understand why there aren't daytime show in the winter either.

[Edm]

Boy oh boy, I hate to admit it, but I agree with your statement. However, I think what Jerry was speaking about is what we seem to see over and over at tracks (some tracks more than others). Jerry stated some REAL issues that should be addressed in the effort to bring those fans back again and again.
EDM, you were at Ocala a few months ago... that show ran right along, fans got what they paid for and everyone got to race. Angie and Mike should host a seminar on how to operate a race track.

That was the 2nd best show I saw all year. Speedweeks at Volusia topped it but not by much. To be completely honest these real issues are a waste of breath. Too much ego for anyone to change. The show killer in my book is the long cautions after the track is cleaned up. It helped me get my car back on the track that last race but as a spectator it just drags the show on.

[Jane]

I did see Jeff, the Race Director at Volusia, use time limits this year. We had one race that was extremely long and after that, he set time limits. 20 minutes for 20 laps, 25 minutes for 25 laps and if they didn't get it done, it was called at the end of the time limit. I also know they use race receivers which does really speed up the process of getting the cars realigned fast. They have someone next to Shelley, the scorer, who tells them very fast what position they are in and they get there very fast. But after that one long race and everyone was getting bored, even the staff, time limits did work and kept the fans happy.

Just some things work for some tracks just like other things work for other tracks. I like the race receiver idea and I have seen for myself this year that it does work. And I also like the time limit placed on the races. Volusia has heat races and features and we start at 7:30 and are usually done with heats and features by 11 so fans get out at a decent time. It does not always happen that way but they do sincerely try to make it work that way.

Everyone wants to get out of a track at a decent time even the staff but fans also want to leave feeling they got their money's worth for the night. That is why we have heats and features. I also like the 6 lap hot laps they do at Volusia. They don't do it for a couple of hours but 6 laps. And the guys don't complain that they don't get enough but seem to be happy.

Oh, if we had a magic wand, we could wave it over all the tracks and the fans and the drivers and all would be happy but that isn't going to happen. Right now we need to support our local tracks as best we can and bring someone to the track that hasn't been before. I know Alex has had alot of friends come with us that had never even seen a racecar but less a race and most all of them loved it and wanted to go back. And that is just the way it is - you either love racing from the first time you go or hate it and never go back. Hopefully you will love it and the track will gain new fans and you will gain new friends.

Nothing better than a racetrack buddy for sure.