Charlotte County "Worst Show in the World"!!

[carolwicks]

2 cents worth...

I dont care for the little sputterboxes either. but there sure are alot of people who do... and every sport has a beginner class... almost all of our NASCAR cars started out in Karts... sure wasnt in their back yards. was at a local track... (USUALLY) one night we had about 30 karts and it was REALLY exciting. no kidding... and there were hardly any yellows ... it
was really competitive with alot of contact and its hard to believe how fast they are. not a sissy race at all!
if the tracks try to please everyone they will never get ahead... i think if its run smoothe and all the rules are 100% consistant , and the rules apply to EVERY driver, then listen to the fans. they will let you know if they're having fun! they will make noise and they will stay there...
i do agree there are way too many classes.but the tracks are really struggling to stay alive. they are taking desperate measures..... like it or not we are NOT the ones who have to run the show and pay the bills... so where do we get the nerve to insult these people whos livelihoods depend on their tracks. most of the races i see at CCMP are really fun... the crowds are fun ... i read all the time how much the drivers love CCMP because they are treated so well... that says alot. we can be critics and Bobby does listen to polite people but being nasty or insulting doesnt help... it just angers and makes people concentrate on the negative. i am glad when you guys come on here with helpful suggestions... and i hope they keep coming until we get it right! ;-)
carol

[Boneman]

If they made one change, ONE darn change, and the perception of mini cups would change from being a go kart to a racer. Dump the centrifigal clutches and let 'em shift. The fact that they can't pull accelerate from a standing start makes them look much too slow.

[SeminoleWind]

I don't get it? I've been viewing this board for over 8 years now and 25% of all the posts critisized track owners for not promoting, not filling their pits and not filling their stands. Bobby Diehl comes along and promotes, fills the pits and puts paying customers in the grandstands, as well as saving a struggling race track. What does he get? A bunch of grief over the way he runs his racetrack.

[Winger]

If they made one change, ONE darn change, and the perception of mini cups would change from being a go kart to a racer. Dump the centrifigal clutches and let 'em shift. The fact that they can't pull accelerate from a standing start makes them look much too slow.

Great point about the clutches. One other thing needs to be changed that I consider a serious safety issue. Either the cage needs to be enlarged, so adults fit in them, or the drivers size needs to be regulated. Several of them have their roof flaps up during a race because a drivers head is sticking up through it. Someone is going to suffer a cervical spine or compression fracture when one gets on it's top someday.

[Jimmy McKinley]

If there were *soooo* many of these "Mini Cup" cars, why, in that picture of the finish, do I only see the two cars...??

[Osmosis Jones]

Flipperlips, Inc.

Just when ya get a good discussion going......

BAM!

Someone feels like it's not a complete thread without a little emotional outburst of irrational thought and incomplete conclusions.

It's like the zookeeper throwin' a bucket of ice cold water on those two very friendly monkeys....it just kills the moment.

In other news.....

Rex....yeah, I agree with dumping the clutches and all but the one thing that would make them more interesting to me is to run them on a track that is more suited to their diminutive size. Go karts are even boring on a 1/4 mile oval track. To me, that is. Apparently to some others they are the cats ass.

Seminole....all I can speak about, and I stated this, is that the crowds I saw on the 4 or 5 occasions I was at CCMP were not anywhere close to being full. The coveted pit slabs that are hawked on here week in and week out were readily available to be occupied. Yet we hear that every race seems to be SRO(Standing Room Only) in the stands with full pits. If he is selling out these events and drawing a pit full of cars.....my question is, why would he need 27 classes with two or three cars apiece just to "stay open"? (yes, I'm exaggerating to make my point because I am a smartass. And yes, we all knew this) There has to be a break even point, right? I'd have to think that full grandstands and full pits should be puttin' the ol' ledger book into the black, right? Message board posts with bouncing icons and miss-spelled words do not a promoter make. I have seen posts ranging from badly run programs to totally idiotic calls made by CCMP officials (both on the track and in tech) to crappy food in the concession area.
NOT ONCE...have I seen a promoter try something new and attribute it to a suggestion he got from a concerned fan or a message board poster.
AND THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING:
TOO MANY CLASSES!!!!!!

...and when one of these tracks goes under, have you ever heard the promoter/owner(former) announce that it was his/her poor promotional abilities that deep-sixed the deal? Yeah, fat chance of that happening. It's always the economy or some other lame ass excuse. It really cracks me up to see all these "We value your input (I mean, iMput) and welcome your suggestions". Can anybody point to one change made at a racetrack that was in direct response to a suggestion given?

Anybody?

Hello?.....Bueller.....Bueller?..........


As always,
Mr. Jones' kid

[Todd McCreary]

If there were *soooo* many of these "Mini Cup" cars, why, in that picture of the finish, do I only see the two cars...?

because not everybody can race for the win?

results page shows 16 in the field with 2 more in the pit that never made it out.
http://charlottecountyracing.com/html/results.shtml

besides, you can see a third car leaving the photo in turn 3.




What does he get? A bunch of grief over the way he runs his racetrack.

you can always complain about something. and hey, we're racers. we're professional complainers ( aero push, not enough forward bite, that squirrel was ninja driving me, wah Wayne Anderson's punches hurt, etc ).



I don't get it?

we're the choir. let us know what, when, where and how much. we'll figure out the rest of the deal ( Diehl? ) when we get there.

the hype is unnecessary, here. and when most of the news that spreads between racers is word-of-mouth from people who've been there ... laying down a lot of hype is a good way to raise expectations to a level that can't be met.

hype? yeah, it has it's place. play it up for the fans and the local businesses.

some of what Bobby gets is just group dynamics. he's "the guy you pick on" now. which isn't cool, but it is what it is.




what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?

i've actually seen some decent Mini-Cup races, OJ.

way better than starting a 4 car field heads up, anyways.




An obnoxious promoter does not a race track make .

so, help him become less "obnoxious"?



and time limits should be in place for the supporting classes .
It was certainly better than the 25 lap Mini Stock feature, which only had SIX starters..

time limits are very important in a time crunch situation. many tracks use them.

Bobby, you may also want to give some thought to cutting the race length if you haven't got a certain number of cars. 12 laps is plenty for a six car field even if you give them a full invert. which you are doing, yes?

that should be another thing. your class doesn't bring 11 cars to the track, you get a full invert ( season points will stop sandbagging in the heat ) no matter what the rest of the track rules are. you must put on a show. you put on a show, you make it so the fans will "only need the edge" of their seat and that place will fill up.

and then you don't need so much hype.....



Not to be mean or anything, but make a test, run a show with those mini whatever only, and check how many fans will show up. There will be your answer on how they are appreciate and welcome.

too many civvies now days don't understand that some of the best racing often comes from the bottom classes. more passing and often more cars.

some won't even come out for anything but a "big" Late Model, Modified or Sprint Car race. but then, there's a lot of people down here who've been burned by poor shows....




and with the exception of A-Dale, Mini Stocks struggle to attract cars.

http://www.citruscountyspeedway.com/...009/081509.htm
really? i kind of think 11 on a 1/4 mile could be a good race.



First off i was at ccmp and was part of the late model show and i agree there was no reason to start 30 race cars in that race.

so what are you calling for? a 10 car B-main with 4 xfers? or you're just going to send 6 guys home?

until CCMP gets a better handle on their schedule, running a B-Main is just a headache.

sending them home causes a lot of hurt feelings.




Stop talking to the winning drivers after a race on nights like this.

on-track interviews have no place on a time-crunch night.

you want to talk to the drivers, have the two or three you want to talk too come up to the booth after their race and interview them between two subsequent races.




Racecievers: These things should be used by EVERY track.

Dave, i keel you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

racers and tracks have been getting by with flags and corner workers for 50+ ( 100? ) years now. it's more about track discipline than it is anything else. maybe organize the signalling that the corner workers use and make sure the drivers know what it means.

besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too.


Too many classes that are mostly the same thing with too few cars... If you have a class that consistently has 5-6 cars or less, then you need to do away with them... Who you gonna have mad at you, 5 people?

repeating for em-FASS-is on the sill-LABLE.

although, i wouldn't just want to throw them out. if possible, point them towards a class that it would be easy for them to set their car up for.

[Rick Williamson]

I ain't never seen a lawn mower like this.

Fact is I have seen better kids club races at Auburndale in real cars. The size, the speed and the sound of the mini's isn't what I come to a race track to see or hear. Sorry it's just how I feel.

[Winger]

what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?

i've actually seen some decent Mini-Cup races, OJ.

way better than starting a 4 car field heads up, anyways.

Have to agree that I've seen a few good mini cup races also. Seen a lot more lousy stock car races lately. Personally, I don't much care for the mini-cups but their races aren't that bad.

too many civvies now days don't understand that some of the best racing often comes from the bottom classes. more passing and often more cars.

some won't even come out for anything but a "big" Late Model, Modified or Sprint Car race. but then, there's a lot of people down here who've been burned by poor shows....

I couldn't agree more. Most track have their largest car counts in the "lower" classes. They're usually the most exciting races just because of the differences in experience.

I am one that was burned by poor shows when I first came to Florida. I stopped going to races down here. I started going again after Ocala went to dirt and finally discovered Eastbay and Volusia. I then realized there was some good racing down here. Maybe not like I was use to, but not bad. All these tracks have some things in common also. And I'm not talking about the dirt. Decent car counts, efficiently run shows usually, clean facilities, professional staffs, consistent rules and tech, and hype they can live up to.

and with the exception of A-Dale, Mini Stocks struggle to attract cars.

http://www.citruscountyspeedway.com/...009/081509.htm
really? i kind of think 11 on a 1/4 mile could be a good race.

Citrus had 17 mini-stocks this past week. I believe that is their smallest weekly class.

First off i was at ccmp and was part of the late model show and i agree there was no reason to start 30 race cars in that race.

so what are you calling for? a 10 car B-main with 4 xfers? or you're just going to send 6 guys home?

until CCMP gets a better handle on their schedule, running a B-Main is just a headache.

sending them home causes a lot of hurt feelings.

I agree that 30 cars is too many cars on any track smaller than a 5/8 mile. With 30 cars you should have 3 or 4 heats and a consi/B-main to determine the feature starters. Some of the guys will have to go home without running the feature. It's just the way it should be. They will have incentive to race harder if they think they may not make the feature. There shouldn't be any hurt feeling if they don't make the feature. That's racing and not making a feature is part of the show. When there are 40+ cars that show up for a UDLMCS race, some of them go home early. Are there hurt feelings because they didn't make the race? They may be upset and unhappy that they didn't make it but I don't think their feeling are hurt. They know the way it is before they come to the track. They know some cars will go home early.
Also, I've seen too many races where a driver will choose not to race in a heat. They say they're running for points and don't want to hurt their cars. Personally, I don't see the logic for doing this in the "lower" classes. These guys should be racing for fun and want all the racing they can get. There isn't enough money in the point funds, for most of these classes, to make that argument worthwhile.

stop talking to the winning drivers after a race on nights like this.

on-track interviews have no place on a time-crunch night.

you want to talk to the drivers, have the two or three you want to talk too come up to the booth after their race and interview them between two subsequent races.

Agreed that interviews and photo ops aren't needed in the time crunch nights. I hadn't thought of the drivers going to the booth but I think that's a great idea.

Racecievers: These things should be used by EVERY track.

Dave, i keel you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

racers and tracks have been getting by with flags and corner workers for 50+ ( 100? ) years now. it's more about track discipline than it is anything else. maybe organize the signalling that the corner workers use and make sure the drivers know what it means.

besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too.

RACECEIVERS SHOULD BE USED BY EVERY TRACK!!!! I agree with that statement 100%. Tracks have been using flags forever. They work fairly well for many situations. However, I remember when caution lights first appeared at tracks. Many people thought they weren't necessary. I doubt that anyone thinks that now. There are also tracks without corner workers. Ocala is one. I believe Volusia doesn't have any and I don't believe NSS does either. I could be wrong. They do have cleanup crews and safety workers. Regardless, raceceivers are a great safety feature that lets the drivers know if there a wreck and where. It's used to let a driver know they have a problem, jumped a start, are lined up wrong, are being given an extra lap to change a tire, and on and on. I hate watching races where it takes 4, 5, 6, 7 or more laps just to realign the cars after a caution and then they have to stop the field to do it. With raceceivers you don't have that issue. A good race director can get on the radio and tell the drivers to calm down and be patient if they see things getting out of control. I've heard them and seen it work. Raceceivers are fairly inexpensive, particularly compared to radios. For the cost of one practice night you could have one. Many tracks will rent them out also. There isn't any reason not to have them.

Yet we hear that every race seems to be SRO(Standing Room Only) in the stands with full pits. If he is selling out these events and drawing a pit full of cars.....my question is, why would he need 27 classes with two or three cars apiece just to "stay open"? (yes, I'm exaggerating to make my point because I am a smartass. And yes, we all knew this)

I don't understand this either. (I understand the smartass part and do agree with you on that)That indicates that he is relying on the back gate to pay for things. With few cars in many classes, the races are boring and the spectators stay away. I know this because I was one, am one, and know many others that say the same thing. Why can't most of these track operators realize this? If you eliminate or merge the classes these guys will still want to race and will race in a class that you have. You will still have just as many cars but more of them in each class. The races are better. Your back gate remains the same. The difference is your front gate will improve because the quality of the show improves.
The reason we see so many of these "traveling" classes like the mini-cups, champ karts, legends, bandeleros, etc. is because of the people they bring into the back gate. I don't believe that's a secret. I don't have a problem with going to a track that has them occasionally but when they become a part of the regular program and are promoted as Late Models or something else, there is something wrong. They may be specially built race vehicles but they aren't full sized race cars. Some people like them and others hate them. Some of us are ambivalent. I know of one huge race fan who will not go to the races where the "little cars" race because she doesn't like them. She would go if they weren't there, even if they didn't add any other race. She just doesn't want to try to enjoy something she doesn't like.

[Bossmanfan]

Sorry, let me clarify about the Mini Stocks and Auburndale comment. I need to be more specific. The Mini's I was talking about are the old 8 valve SOHC type. Ya know, Celica's, Mustangs, Dodge Chargers and Daytona's, VW Rabbits, etc. The older older type stuff that they let you do a little more with. I wasn't referring to what Citrus runs, they are more 4 cyl Bomber/Stock type stuff even though I believe they are pretty much 8 valve/sohc. CCMP also has these, but they allow multi valve and dohc engine, and it is a pretty healthy and affordable class. The stuff that isn't getting alot of cars are the old bastard type Mini's that pretty much only succeed at A-Dale. Heck, alot of the A-Dale Mini's come to CCMP when they have an off week. They aren't mod mini's, and they ain't stock either. I sold mine over a year ago because I knew the days of these cars were numbered.

[helper]

Suggesting for help things along

Hi all,

This is a suggestion I already sent to them if they would have used it this past week we would have been fine. That is to have the autograph session over in turn one, as they have done in the past, there is a nice pad there and then can setup tables for them or chair or even behind the turn one stands, there is room there to setup tables and chairs or something along those lines, and you don't tie up the track with getting people on and off, you can have any drivers come out, not just the late model, and every one could have a good time with out wasting 45 minutes to an hour on people walking around the track.

As for the minicups, they had some real good racing for second and third, best of the night as they where swapping positions every turn, then they wrecked and it was slow until the end. Not a fan of them but it was a pretty good race.

Laters...

[Frasson118]

"besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too."

Radio's, spotters and mirrors have NO place in short track racing. They have had a huge part in ruining racing, as I used to know it. Having some guy on the radio telling his driver to run high, or block low, kills the competition factor.

Spotters are for car drivers.... racers don't need the damned things.

Before everyone jumps all over the "it's a safety feature to have a radio" bandwagon, I'll say Bullshit right now. All the safety aspects could come through the Raceceiver system. I'm pretty sure the race control tower will not tell Jim-Bob to "block the low lane", or tell Buford that "that sumbitch is coming on the outside... WALL him". You see, ALL drivers receive the same information at the same time as everyone else.

Funny how the Sprints, Dirt LM's, the Big-Block DIRT guys can make a living out of racing, WITHOUT the use of any radios or spotters, yet the average 14year-old Florida punk driving a Truck can't get around Speedworld without someone telling him what to do!

[andre]

Funny how the Sprints, Dirt LM's, the Big-Block DIRT guys can make a living out of racing, WITHOUT the use of any radios or spotters, yet the average 14year-old Florida punk driving a Truck can't get around Speedworld without someone telling him what to do!

I agree 1000%. Can't drive alone, get outta there!!!! 410 Sprint car are lightning fast and no radios!!!

Also, there was a mention that 30 Late Models at CCMP is too many, well, they started 30 at Thunder RD this past w/e, for the Labor Day Classic, 1/4 mile high bank, they ran 181 laps before the first yellow. 45 Late model showed up for 30 spots in the feature.

[andre]

Forgot to mention at the drop of checkered flag, there were still 30 cars on the race track, yep! They all finished the race.

[john tenney]

That's really not fair. In the Sportsman, my visibility was horrible. The mirror sucked and there was really no way to tell anyone was on the right rear quarter.

A spotter was a great thing to have.