stop the madness !!!

[butlernesco]

It's time to stop all the bullcrap at OSW. Now that people have finally stopped laughing, what happened friday night was stupid. If you are going to bring in a dyno to catch team orange, then at least have the ability to do it right. .
When the teams are told to take their car directly from the tech shack to the dyno and one team just drives over to their pit, that ought to tell you something right there. Then when track personel have to go over and ASK them to go to the dyno, it takes people higher up the food chain to get them to do it. Most teams in any other division would have been automatically dq'd and sent packing. By the time they finally agreed to go to the dyno, the car had been "dumbed down" to the point it couldn't make any reasonable hp. The hp was closer to a 305 engine than a 350. Plus when it came off the track it was running fine, yet it was missing when it finally got to the dyno. You can't blame team orange. They are just working the system, like everyone else would like to.

[Todd McCreary]

The hp was closer to a 305 engine than a 350.

every Super Stock that has been on that dyno over the last two weeks has shown between 200 and 220hp. is the dyno reading low? i suspect so, but at least they are all consistent. if you think it's showing 305 power levels, everybody is showing 305 power levels.

Hindman's Strictly Stock Lincoln Mark VIII showed 219hp.

oddly, the Mark VIII has now been barred from NSS after FASCAR went out of their way to say on this very board that OSW Strictly Stock cars could run up there within the last month. once again, changing unwritten rules on the fly.

nobody knows what is going to happen from week to week and nobody knows what is going to be legal from week to week. the only thing anybody really knows is that if you win "too much" and aren't rich and/or well connected with the track ( sometimes in spite of being rich and well connected ) you're going to get run off. this is the problem.

i hear tell that some tracks treat their winners like heroes and try to build up a fan base for them. must be one of them crazy "northern" things ( like, as far north as Daytona, even ) that will never work in Florida.





When the teams are told to take their car directly from the tech shack to the dyno and one team just drives over to their pit, that ought to tell you something right there.

it tells you he's getting tired of the bullshit. the car was driven back to their pit because Billy was this >>>.<<< far from loading up and going home. Billy asked me what Ron would do when he was trying to make up his mind to put his car on the dyno or not and i told him he knew better than to ask me that question. i told him it came down to whether or not he wanted to keep coming back and at ~10 miles from his house he can't justify boycotting OSW. yet.

the track would have never gotten my car on the dyno in the first place and i wouldn't be worried about coming back. given his behavior, i'm actually really surprised Donny didn't get a fist in the mouth when he was up on the dyno screaming at Billy.

if the dyno is that easy to cheat and the dyno crew can't figure out how to make the driver stop cheating the test, they need to stay the fuck home.

me, i'd have a minimum of 3 operators on the dyno. one to run the computer, one stationed at the LF tire to watch the throttle linkage and butteflies and one near the RR tires to watch the driver and make sure he's not dragging the brake.


either that or Donny needs to stop mouthing off about things that he doesn't know anything about. or he could just, you know, get on with the engine tear down and stop screwing around being a drama queen and trying to run dyno tests that don't mean anything one way or the other anyways.




the track can demand a tear down at any time. they have torn the Cuddy's down numerous times. have the Cuddy's ever refused a tear down? no?

the track has nothing to complain about. the only thing the racers might have to complain about is the quality of the tech crew.

[Hired Gun]

[I]

oddly, the Mark VIII has now been barred from NSS after FASCAR went out of their way to say on this very board that OSW Strictly Stock cars could run up there within the last month. once again, changing unwritten rules on the fly.
.

Just to clear that up a little, They just ask me to leave my "ENDURO" car at home,because people were starting to complain about it. Enduro car ? it's a strictly stock that I just so happen to run in enduro races, it still has the carpet and power seats and A/C still in it haha. So last night I brought my 76' Monte Carlo to NSS started last I think it was 8th and won still.

"punished for being fast?"

[flraceguy]

You know... I happen to love racing.... But Back Door, either sign your name or shut up... Everyone is sick of your senseless babble, you evidently aren't a racer and you truly are not a Short Track Race Fan... You would pay Donnie, I personally have nothing against Donnie, but the tech area is for the Tech to call, not anyone else... If Fascar is going to bring a dyno out, then they need to specify in the rules that the Dyno will be done by a private 3rd party dyno, not a competitor that competes and/or builds in that class... No matter if the people running the dyno are straight up across the board or not...

I do believe that the argument over the cars coming up to NSS was that they didn't fit the current NSS Strictly Stock Rules that Fascar has specified in the rule book. Mind you, I enjoy seeing the guys drive them, but that is the argument that has been mentioned... Hey Willy, congrats on the win... As I have told you before, don't stop coming out to the track!! That means the A..holes have won... So keep on coming out, keep racing, and always remember come on out and have keep having fun...

[Todd McCreary]

I do believe that the argument over the cars coming up to NSS was that they didn't fit the current NSS Strictly Stock Rules that Fascar has specified in the rule book.


one problem is, none of the cars ( except the 70's LTD? ) at either track "fit the rules".

another problem is, we keep getting told that they're going to run the same rules at both tracks. being as both tracks are owned and run by the same organization, you wouldn't think this would be a big deal ........

we've been over this ad nauseam.

[Hired Gun]

As of April 10th Butch said that unibody cars from OSW can run at NSS along with their cars under the same rules. Meaning if it runs at Orlando it can run at New Symerna. But in the case of the #29 Ford Probe and any other Fwd v-6 that has around the same wheelbase "not how many inches they are, Im sure Todd knows" would have to install roll cages to run. Tim Walters was given a grace period of 2 or 3 weeks that he was aloud with out one.

If they want to get specific in 76' the Monte Carlo was able to come with a 400 small block being a $148.00 option. A 454 for an extra $231.00
choose your weapon.

[butlernesco]

Possible fixes for OSW

I could not agree more with much of what has been said about the goings on at OSW. The way they work tech is a joke and most drivers are pissed off about it. I have seen this before and the only way it got cleaned up was to put in claimer rules. I know, it's not something that a lot of people like, (including me), but it stopped 85% of the bitching and finger pointing. Let's be honest, there is no money in racing, so at the very least it should be somewhat enjoyable. I don't see a lot of that at OSW. I do see smaller car counts, hardly any fans, and teams spending a lot of money to get pissed off. Why keep doing it that way? I can see a team saying the claimer rule would not be fair because they might have 10 thou in their motor and nobody else in their class does. If they run in a class like super stock, and they spend like that to win 100.00, maybe they should move up. I'm not saying it will cure all the bull, but to let it go on like it is, will only result in more of the same. With the economy being down, by august most teams will ask themselves, "why bother".

[flraceguy]

If they want to get specific in 76' the Monte Carlo was able to come with a 400 small block being a $148.00 option. A 454 for an extra $231.00 choose your weapon.

I hate to be a naysayer, but I will bring up the point in the rule book for Strictly Stocks that says, No special ordered vehicles...

Glad you are back and can't wait to see Tim out with the other car...

Have a great night all... Remember, Go fast-- Turn Left...

[OLD STYLE RACER 2]

Not trying to be smart here, But isn't a "special order" different from a "option"?????

[Hired Gun]

I looked it up. GM called it a option, I would think speaial order would be something like SS,yenko,roush,corbra but Im not sure, kind of a gray area. My next of kin has a big monte and a old 454 out of motor home lets see what tech will say about that.

[Todd McCreary]

If they want to get specific in 76' the Monte Carlo was able to come with a 400 small block being a $148.00 option. A 454 for an extra $231.00

1971-74, the Buick Electra came with a 455. and it wasn't an option, it was the only engine.



Not trying to be smart here, But isn't a "special order" different from a "option"?????

yes.

and while you could torture the "no performance vehicles" clause to exclude the 454, i don't see how you could exclude the small block 400 when the 454 was available.






Tim Walters was given a grace period of 2 or 3 weeks that he was aloud with out one.

Tim told me this last Friday that his v6 Probe has been specifically excluded, just like your Mark VIII. if all they want is a cage, they did a terrible job of communicating that too him.

he's talking about building a metric car just so he can kick their asses and not have to listen to tech whine.




in the case of the #29 Ford Probe and any other Fwd v-6 that has around the same wheelbase "not how many inches they are, Im sure Todd knows" would have to install roll cages to run.

by the book, the 2nd gen Probe is supposed to have a 102.9" wheelbase. the few times i've taken a tape measure to it i've gotten 103", even. *shrugs*

whatever, it's longer than a Fox body Mustang. and there's no rule in the current book about requiring cages for NSS or anything about wheelbases.

which wouldn't aggravate me so much but i addressed all of that in the proposed rule changes i gave them last fall when they were asking for driver input....

[Frasson118]

After reading all this crap that OSW puts the damn "Strictly Stocks" through, it's no wonder they can't get any cars in ANY class.

I NEVER hear all this shit coming from East Bay, Volusia, Ocala, etc...

Oh, that's right... they're all Dirt tracks, where everyone knows that handling and driving are what wins races, not a couple of c.c.'s in the heads, unibody frames, wheelbase, factory options (or is it "special order cars"), or any of this other nit-picky crap.

I'm starting to think that it would be foolish for anyone to build a car for this class (or Super Stock, Sportsman or LM for that matter), because god-forbid, if you wind up winning, either you will be DQ'ed for god-only-knows what reason, or you will be hassled so badly by Tech and other competitors, that it quickly becomes NO FUN... and isn't that why you guys got in this in the first place?

As much as everyone tries to blame "the economy" for the lousy fields, I think a good look in the mirror might reveal more honest answers to why this place isn't cutting it.

If it were me trying to "even up the competetion", I think I would add 50 lbs. to every winning car, each time it wins, until the field equalizes out. Then all this "chassis dyno" crap (on a Strictly Stock for crying out loud), would all just be a waste of time and energy.

Quite a few people need to find something better to do with their time!

[Hired Gun]

My 2 Cents

I think the main reason is for the last 15 years the strictly stocks "run-a-bouts for you old guys haha just kidding" has been the same cars monte,gran prix olds gutless is about it, and a Ford here or there. They just need to open there eyes a little bit for fuel injection, uni body's anything that is bone stock should be able to run including FWD v-6, v-8, 4cylinders, imports and all. Orlando has done it for a few years but NSS seems to act like "we mess around with them cars attitude". Now would I want to be the one running a fox body mustang against full size 70's LTD's NO, but I have done it. I can under stand not let little cars run art NSS but if its got a cage in it should be fine.Remember when mini stocks were pintos and celicas, and sportsman were Camaros and Novas. Now they all look the same "late modal bodies" and the fans cant hardly tell the difference. It should be drivers choice on want he wants to run not the track. Another problem I think it brings is maybe the tech officials are not sure want to do to check them. for example you should have seen tech at NSS win I won with my MARK they told me to pop the hood lol, you would have thought they were trying to read Spanish. If its not got a carb on it they just are not sure what to do. If they would "open the gates" to what ever want to run. The class would triple easly.


just my opinion.

[Todd McCreary]

Oh, that's right... they're all Dirt tracks, where everyone knows that handling and driving are what wins races,


there are plenty of asphalt tracks that know this too.

if you'll notice, you don't hear "this shit" coming from Citrus, A-dale, 5 Flags, etc. you might hear other shit, but not this shit.

as far as the Cuddy's in particular, i'm pretty sure i figured out what set the track off on them.


I NEVER hear all this shit coming from East Bay, Volusia, Ocala, etc...

dirt racers are thin on the ground here at Karnac. i think most of them frequent other boards.

[Hired Gun]

After Then all this "chassis dyno" crap (on a Strictly Stock for crying out loud), would all just be a waste of time and energy.

The Strickly that was dynoed was by chioce of the driver after the races were
just for fun to see what it could make.