Safety expectations

[Winger]

Here's another study but not the one I want. This one focuses a lot on the very young, i.e.: infants. It does have some neat diagrams showing differences in bodies though. It has a lot of information. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3400202/

[Winger]

I watched them I don't see any evidence to support your claims saying basically adults would've lived. If you have any hard evidence please post.

I'm pasting part of a study on cervical spine injuries. I haven't had a chance to do a search specifically. I should have bookmarked it or saved a copy a few years ago when I was doing this. Perhaps I overstated this by saying an adult probably would have lived in these specific circumstances but the study shows they have a better chance of living. Be aware that there are 3 different age groups. There's a young group that's basically under age 11, and middle group from 11 through adolescents and then adults. This study covers different types of spinal injuries but doesn't specifically discuss the basal skull fracture, which is basically a spinal fracture at C1. I know I saw a specific study related to basal skull fractures and children vs. adults. I just have to find it.

This came from: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...72346105000693


Discussion
Anatomy
The anatomy of the paediatric cervical spine differs from that of an adult.

Head size is disproportionately larger than the body compared to an adult, neck musculature is not fully developed, there is greater laxity of spinal ligaments, vertebral bodies are wedge shaped and articular surfaces are horizontally angled. It has been suggested that the pivot point is located high in the cervical spine of a young child so combined with the above features, ligamentous injuries are frequently encountered high in the cervical spine in younger patients.10

It has been suggested that characteristics of cervical spine injuries in children do not trend towards those of an adult until 10–11 years of age, and do not equal those characteristics until late adolescence.9

Most studies comparing cervical spine injuries in children take these factors into consideration. They tend to divide children into two distinct groups, a younger (usually up to 8 or 10 years old) group and an older age group, with the older group having more adult cervical spine characteristics.

Pattern of injury
Compared to adults, children have a different pattern with regard to the level and type of cervical spine injury.

Several studies have demonstrated that younger children are more likely to sustain injuries to the upper cervical spine rather than the lower cervical spine.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10 and 11

One retrospective study of 227 patients found that of the 38 patients younger than 8 years of age, 87% had an injury at C3 or higher.11 This is similar to another retrospective study of 408 children who suffered blunt cervical spine injury where they found a significant difference in that younger (less than or equal to 10 years of age) children more often sustained high (C1–C4) versus low (C5–C7) injuries when compare to older children (85.3% versus 56.9%; P < 0.01). 9

Level of injury in our audit follows similar patterns, with all of the fractures or subluxations in the younger age group occurring in the upper cervical spine. In the older age group fractures and subluxations occurred at all levels.

Compared to older children, younger children tend to have more subluxations or dislocations without fractures.9, 10 and 11

In their retrospective study of 408 children, Kokoska et al. found that younger children had a significantly higher incidence of dislocations (31.2% versus 20.4%; P < 0.01) and lower incidence of fractures (42.1% versus 65.1%; P < 0.01) when compared to older children. 9

Injuries are more common among males, and the male to female ratio varies from around 1.4:1 up to 2.5:1.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10 and 11

The male preponderance has found to be more marked in an older age group of 9 years and older.11

SCIWORA is a phenomenon of spinal trauma with neurological injury but without fracture or dislocation, and is suggested to be more common in children. Kokoska et al. found the incidence of SCIWORA to be 18.9% with a significant difference between younger and older children (26.7% versus 14.5%; P < 0.01). 9 Incidence rates for SCIWORA have been reported to be even higher than this, although there is large variation between institutions. 12

Adult rates of SCIWORA were found to be about 3% (27 from 818 injuries) in the large prospective National Emergency X-Radiography Utilization Study (NEXUS).6

We found five cases of SCIWORA out of 22 injuries, which is comparable to previous studies.

Causes of injury

[Lurkin]

I watched them I don't see any evidence to support your claims saying basically adults would've lived. If you have any hard evidence please post.

[al_tere_go_05]

it will work with any seat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFOprqPmgqQ

[Winger]

Do you have any evidence to support this? I'm seriously asking, not trying to be funny.

I've researched it. I don't have any text books but you can find information on the internet. Actually, you can go to http://safeisfast.com/ and watch the safety video. I don't remember if they actually mention the size aspect but they do mention the length of the head being different, thus kids requiring a special helmet. I'll see if I can find some sources online when I get a chance.

[cake]

What Eau Gallie track? I thought that closed down.

They are working to re open the dirt track.

[egspeedway]

Other than the Eau Gallie track, ( top speed of 40 mph) I'm parked till I can get a HANS or something similar. It's just stupid to not have one anymore.

What Eau Gallie track? I thought that closed down.

[Boneman]

I'm parked till I can get a HANS

Palmbayer, Speedworld needs cars. You can borrow mine until you get one. I'll be there with you guys anyway. You will need to put the mounts in your helmet however. Also, your car needs racing belts to hold everything in place.

A HANS is not fully effective without a full containment seat, but I can't help you on that.

[palmbayer]

Other than the Eau Gallie track, ( top speed of 40 mph) I'm parked till I can get a HANS or something similar. It's just stupid to not have one anymore.

[Lurkin]

Actually the size and age of a driver has a lot to do with the cause of death in these types of accidents. They are not small adults, they are different. The deaths of the 2 teens in the last few years here, probably would not have been fatal to an adult.

Do you have any evidence to support this? I'm seriously asking, not trying to be funny.

[Jack Burroughs]

Sad event

First off, my thoughts and prayers out to the family and friends. I am somewhat alarmed that I see minor kids driving on Stock Car Tracks, because I have seen a case of a minor driving a racing kart and rough riding the others on the track, one competitor was overheard to say, " he does that again, I'm putting him over the fence", someone overheard it and got a lawyer and the guy was taken to court for, "endangerment of a minor" , almost lost his home and business. I feel that in today's litagous society , that no one can afford to put themselves in such a position that they could be sued for everything they own. After seeing the rash of accidential deaths in Nascar Open Wheel Modifieds some yrs. back due to what they said was cars too stiff to avoid totaling in wrecks, but drivers bodies couldn't survive the secondary collision inside the cars, then in Cup racing there were also some deaths from basal skull fracture, hence the Hans and 360 devises. Just saying that a precedent has been set, so why not pay attention to it? I come from an era when drivers wore white T-shirts to drive, how long did it take to get them in suits or jackets that were more protective?

[rhinoracing11]

Maybe its time for the MFGs to get the Full containment seats and the hans device price down to realistic measures.You put both of these together and its more than a 4cly or a lowere class car!Again these should be standard, not the if I can afford.If the mfgs are makin a 40 to 50 % PROFIT on these there is a lot of room to work with.Im dreaming of course!

[luke81]

Just found this video.....Keselowski tweeted it......very telling. There is also a video of Johnnny Benson I saw back soon after Dale died. It was an in car video of him in a late model.....It was amazing how far his helmet traveled.....almost completely off his head......this video shows a rally car wreck...the co pilot has a HANS the driver doesn't......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40Ya...ature=youtu.be

This is a great video. Also note the seat. For some reason a few people have decided to tell people that a HANS will hurt you if you don't have a full containment seat. Clearly this video shows proof that is a lie, and its a really stupid lie that I'm tired of reading.

Edit to add: I'm certainly not saying don't get the seat...I'm saying don't NOT buy the HANS/Hybrid because you don't have the seat.

[Darrell 76]

EMT &amp; Ambulance

I am not offering this as fact but was told that some track insurance companies do not require an ambulance on hand if the track is within a certain proximity of a hospital.

first off
MY Prayers and Condolences Go Out To This Young Ladies Family

Now ,
I am retired from a local city and we had auctions every year to sell surplus equipment , ambulances included , that was not cost effective to keep and run 24/7 , but could be used for this purpose.
EMT's need money just like the rest of us , (little side $$ is always nice)
Driving is not Mandated it is a Privilage , when you buy your tags you have to have insurance , how many people pay health insurance , life insurance , homeowners insurance , it all cost's , but "YOU CAN'T PUT A PRICE ON A LIFE "
The local track I go to has Emergency equip & people there , I have seen them respond to race car incidences , the stands for a spectator getting hit in the head with a clump of dirt the size of a golf ball , an elderly with a heart issue , I think once there was even an inebriated soul that fell down and got hurt .
When my son was bicycle racing ,there was EMT's at the tracks .
if Bubba honors last weeks tickets as compared to EMT's / Equip where does he stand ??
When we are not racing , i'm in the stands supporting my track .
All this is my opinion ( like arm pits everyone has at least one )
Darrell

[Winger]

An absolute tragedy to be sure...but much of the discussion has focused on her age as a reason kids shouldn't race "big cars". The size of the car or age of the driver almost never have anything to do with cause of death. (Who was more experienced than Dale Sr.?)

The VAST majority of the time it comes down to improperly installed or applied safety equipment. After all the dust (finally) settled on Dale's crash, it was improperly installed seat belt. Would some type of head and neck restraint saved him? No one knows for sure, but most likely. But the fact still remains, had his belts been installed properly he would likely still be with us today.

It's too early to tell what caused this tragedy...but it wasn't that she was too young in a "big car". Regardless of the cause, my heat breaks for that family.

Actually the size and age of a driver has a lot to do with the cause of death in these types of accidents. They are not small adults, they are different. The deaths of the 2 teens in the last few years here, probably would not have been fatal to an adult.