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Old 05-19-2019, 05:38 PM
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Boneman Boneman is offline
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Default Explain this, if you can

Galesburg Speedway in Michigan, 5-18-19, left me scratching my head.

It is a cool little 1/4 mile paved track that I visit once a year. Last night, car after car was blackflagged, usually while leading, and for no apparent reason. The fans were frustrated and confused, so I expect the drivers were pretty hot about it too.

In one heat, it looked like EVERYONE was blackflagged, and the race was just stopped. A few minutes later, ONE of the cars came back out, ran two laps "under green" and was given the heat win.

I suspected it had something to do with electronic scoring, and the fact that a new management team is in place. This was their second race night, and I suggest they have a critical procedure to correct.

I asked the starter after the races what was going on. He said confidently and unapologetically that many cars "break out", in other words, they run under their qualifying time. Do that in any race, he says, and you will be DQ'd.

If fairness to the track, I have not bothered to look up their procedure. However the explanation came from the guy who waved the black flag, so they are clearly as crazy as hell.

For example, in the junker "C" feature, the leader was blackflagged from a race that he was clearly going to win. The C race was for the newest drivers to this entry level class. It was his first night in racing, so instead of winning, he gets to tell the painful tale of how he had the race won, but was thrown out for going too fast. Just plain dumb! Wouldn't you expect a new driver to get faster? Isn't that the goal of EVERY driver?

The do this break out thing in bracket drag racing, right? Is there anywhere that does this in circle track racing? What is the goal, and does it work?
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:43 PM
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OldSchool+ OldSchool+ is offline
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"I asked the starter after the races what was going on. He said confidently and unapologetically that many cars "break out", in other words, they run under their qualifying time. Do that in any race, he says, and you will be DQ'd...They do this break out thing in bracket drag racing, right? What is the goal, and does it work?"--Boneman

You gots it.

In the 50's and 60's, they had (and still do at the national level) many classes of drag cars. Like current oval track racing, most of the money was made at the pit gate. Folks did not like a literal handful of cars (like two late models in a heat last night), and they also did not like being out-moneyed and frequently quit (like, well, you know...).

So, I dunno the particulars, but three or four classes or "brackets" were developed, into which all cars are eligible.

You can work on your car all you want--or not. One car is handicapped and the other leaves first. Both theoretically get to the finish line simultaneously.

Of course, much treachery ensued (say it ain't so) and sandbagging came along, probably at the first race, hence the "break out" rule to keep them in line. "X" amount too fast, and you are DQd.

Last edited by OldSchool+ : 05-19-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:49 PM
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Now, on the upside it effectively limits the need for ever increasing amounts of coin right now.

But it seems like they need to fine tune their deal. I damn sure would want my spotter reading off lap times--maybe even time at the half lap point.

Earlier I floated a similar trial (and apparently lead) balloon that all cars entering a pit gate could be qualified, and then split into "classes" based on time regardless of how the car was built.

That way everything would be "legal". But you would have sandbagging, and then what?

Still, at the end of the day, racecars should put on a show, and the more the better.

(ps--Initially I thought--"did they all jump the cone??")

Last edited by OldSchool+ : 05-19-2019 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:30 AM
Renegade Racing Fuels Renegade Racing Fuels is offline
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It was used a lot back in the day . I believe it was called Austrailian Pursuit. If you want to completely invert the field, you have to be certain that qualifying times are legit so no sandbagging. If you get caught going faster thsn your qualifying time, you get black flagged.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:07 PM
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Memory is always tricky these days, but...

I does believe that I saw an "Australian Pursuit" race once at a local track back in the day.

Seems like after "x" number of laps the last place car headed for the infield, and on each subsequent lap the "new" last place car followed the first one off the track, until there was one car left--the winner.

I believe they tried it once, and never again. It was interesting, but once was enough for me.

A different deal than what Boneman describes, methinks.

I have seen races close to Australian Pursuit at Showtime--but they are all bent up as they head into the infield...

Last edited by OldSchool+ : 05-20-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:46 AM
Phil Jacques Phil Jacques is offline
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I'll throw a weird thought in.

Money = Speed most of the time. Maybe they are trying to keep the cars at certain speeds, in a different attempt to keep division costs down? Seems like a strange tactic to me.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:05 AM
Renegade Racing Fuels Renegade Racing Fuels is offline
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I could be wrong about the practice being called Austrailian Pursuit. But i do think Rex is describing a forrmat for short track racing that was ( and likely still is ) popular among fans. All cars time in , and the lineup for the race is totally inverted. Cars are clocked at random during the race, if caught going a tenth or so under their qualifying time they get blackflagged. That format keeps the fans on their feet warching the fast cars coming from the back.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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Cool Butler Motor Speedway in Michigan

I grew up going to Butler as a kid. This is a 1/4 mile dirt track. The idea of the rule was that the track was faster time trials than any other time of night, so if you ran faster in the race you were DQed for sand bagging. They had over 60 cars in their mods and the fastest 20 ran the A main inverted. The next fastest 20 cars ran the B main Inverted. The next fastest 20 ran the C main inverted. The rest of the cars ran their heat race and went home. If you had a problem during your time trial you could tell them and go to the back of the C main and race your way into the A main. The best nights were when one of the top guys started tail end of the C main and made it to the A main. I went there from the time I was 7-8 years old until we moved to Florida when I was 16. I only saw a few race leaders Black flagged in all those years, so it worked out very good. It insured great racing !! Only time did I see anyone win the A main from the back of the C main, It was a guy out of Coldwater Michigan named Jimmy Stedmans(sp) and Jimmy did it twice. Those were two of the best nights at a race track in my life !!

Last edited by oneoff : 05-21-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:04 PM
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Boneman Boneman is offline
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Here is the problem with the way Galesburg did it. No one knew what was going on, and some booing broke out among the paying fans. I don't think the announcer knew either because he offered no explanation. The starter looked absolutely sick (I was sitting very close) at how it devastated the show.


If you are going to use this procedure (which I still don't agree with) at least make it more transparent. Give the offense a name, for example. Make a big flashing sign that says "break out", and have it go off when someone gets the DQ.

It is silly to penalize racers for improving as the night goes on, especially very new drivers.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:07 PM
Renegade Racing Fuels Renegade Racing Fuels is offline
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It's surprising that the track didn't let everyone know what was going on. I raced under this system for years and it sure makes for a good show for the fans. Each car timed in and that was your time for the night. If you found a plug wire off or a tire going down after qualifying you could ask for another 2 laps. If you made a change during the night you had the option of starting at the rear of the race and then the time you ran during the race was your new time for the rest of the evening.
But i'm just speculating about the reason for everyone being blackflagged at Galesburg, could have been something else entirely.
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Last edited by Renegade Racing Fuels : 05-21-2019 at 07:10 PM.
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